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Author Topic: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657  (Read 537 times)

Zeta

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Submission Information:

Series: Fire Emblem
Game: Fire Emblem Fates
Console: Nintendo 3DS
Title: Lost in Thoughts All Alone
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: D3ath3657
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 02:47:18 AM by D3ath3657 »
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D3ath3657

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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2017, 02:22:02 AM »

Here's the original.

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Olimar12345

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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2018, 08:49:05 PM »

Hey there, D3ath. Sorry for the wait on this. From what I understand there is another arrangement of this track floating around the forums and the updaters/arrangers involved with that version were debating which one to upload (yours or theirs). I'm not totally sure of the status of that to be honest, but if you would like to submit something else in the mean time, feel free to.

Hopefully someone who knows more about this than I do can post and clear things up.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 04:51:48 PM by Olimar12345 »
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Latios212

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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2018, 06:28:53 AM »

While this is by no means a bad arrangement, I do spot a number of things in this sheet I take issue with...

- Unnecessarily large bars. They make it harder to find strong beats when reading, and the percussion that comes in at about 2:20 is indicative of phrases consisting of three beats.
- Single note arpeggios. I do not feel like they capture the essence of the accompaniment during the chorus for several reasons - you lose of key rhythms and contours from the original, not to mention the original's accompaniment consists of different notes.
- Harmonies. They move around between registers and pop in and out too much; particularly during the chorus in measure 30 where they drop out entirely. The first chord strike of measure 23 sounds relatively empty with an octave in the left hand and sixth in the right, while the following chord strike sounds much heavier with a seventh chord played by the left hand.
- Low notes. Related to the above, the bottom notes of the piece seem to let up occasionally like at the beginning of measure 24 where the lowest note in the chord is just the F# below middle C. The chords before and after it strike A# and D# that are far below that note, sort of leaving the listener wondering where the accompaniment went there.

With regards to the above points I feel that a piano condensing (not posted yet) of the vocal+piano sheet Maelstrom and I have arranged does a better job of maintaining the essence of the original, as well as looks nicer.
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D3ath3657

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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2018, 04:32:08 AM »

I originally chose to go with 6/4 time because the melody was so long, and this divided it into two sections of 4 measures, which is pretty standard, as opposed to two sections of 8 measures. A friend who was studying music with me in college, and helped me out a lot with this arrangement, also said it sounded like 6/4 to him, though he didn't like the temporary change to 9/4 (which I don't like much either), and suggested I could make the whole thing 3/4, which I held off on doing until now, but definitely agree with. Moreover, I am considering changing the intro to 2/4 time, as my friend also suggested.

The reason I went with arpeggios in measures 30-36 is that the actual piano part is constantly in the same register as the voice (in retrospect, I might switch to a hybrid texture for this stretch), and later in the piece, it's because arpeggios on a piano sound more full than repeated block chords, which I found preferable for the instrumental passage from measures 64-71 and the denser texture of subsequent choruses.

Regarding the harmonies moving register, I have played this arrangement on multiple different straight and grand pianos, and have never noticed any problems, especially the impression of missing bass notes. I feel this might be a problem with the MIDI simulation and not the arrangement itself. I even asked my professor for advice, particularly with inconsistent texture, and he did not find anything problematic.

Concerning the chord structures of measure 23 specifically, I also found the A major chord sounded somewhat empty, so I added a C# in the middle register, and moved the E# of the following A#m7 chord up an octave, which makes the texture more even (I haven't updated the files yet).

Concerning measure 24, I do not, in all honesty, find the lack of a lower F# jarring in any way. On the contrary, I find a more mobile bass adds variety and creates interest, and is much more idiomatic to the piano, as opposed to the "licks" performed by the bass in the original, or trying to play all the notes of a piece for ensemble in their original registers.

I realize this arrangement is much more of an actual arrangement, rather than a transcription for piano, but I don't see why this would be problematic.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 04:34:01 AM by D3ath3657 »
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Latios212

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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2018, 05:06:26 AM »

I realize this arrangement is much more of an actual arrangement, rather than a transcription for piano, but I don't see why this would be problematic.
There's nothing wrong with that. The things I listed above were my concerns about how well your interpretation "works" for piano, not how "accurate" it is.

I'll have more to say at some point later; I will have quite a busy week coming up (and am eagerly awaiting your new edits!)
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D3ath3657

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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2018, 06:17:51 AM »

Files have been updated.

The biggest change is the time signature. I also made a few tweaks to notes here and there.

Most notably, I held off on switching my arpeggio patterns, for the following reasons:
  • The piano chords are constantly in the same register as the voice, and lowering them muddies the sound. Moreover, completing the voice notes with chord notes in earlier choruses makes the build-up from one chorus to the next less meaningful.
  • The single piano notes and bass notes rely on other instruments sustaining the harmony. Playing only these two lines makes the harmony unsatisfying, if not unclear. Additionally, the independent rhythms aren't complementary.
  • For later choruses, arpeggios are simply the best way to emulate the full orchestral sound of the original.
In the end, I believe arpeggios are the best way to obtain a harmonic accompaniment which sounds full and even, while retaining the flow of the original.
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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2018, 11:48:52 AM »

I'm very pleased with how you've continued to improve and evolve this arrangement towards your own vision. The most I can offer at this point is some pedantry regarding page layout. If we use 6.5mm staff size (as per Elaine Gould's recommendations), symmetrical margins (with sides slightly larger to offset the ungainly width of the aspect ratio of 8.5 x 11 paper), and a general allotment of 5 measures per system (with some judicious give-and-take to account for page turns), we get a much more functional print-ready layout:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ar98o8lrif1hqzr/Lost%20in%20Thoughts%20All%20Alone%20%28edit%29.musx?dl=0

I butchered your slurs in the process unfortunately, but shouldn't take too long I hope to redraw them :)
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 11:54:32 AM by Bespinben »
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D3ath3657

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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2018, 11:38:51 PM »

Files have been updated.
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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2018, 12:12:43 AM »

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but it seems all that was done (at least as far as what I was concerned with) was that you changed the page size to 85% (formally 91%) and changed the left margin to 0.75" (formally 1"). While this does improve the aesthetic of the layout somewhat, it doesn't fix any of the major issues that my recommendations were aimed at -- namely, whitespace optimization and page turns. While I understand that preparing a layout around page turns is a non-issue for a lot of people (as I know many NSM'ers either use tablets or print single-sided), there's still tons of unused whitespace in your current edition at the bottom of each page, which is just not good graphic design. Aim for a predictable layout with ample whitespace that allows your music to breath:

« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 12:14:52 AM by Bespinben »
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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2018, 02:50:18 AM »

Just saw your newest edit; that's much better now! I'll accept this if there are no objections otherwise... Latios?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 02:58:24 AM by Bespinben »
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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2018, 02:55:26 AM »

I'll have more to say at some point later; I will have quite a busy week coming up (and am eagerly awaiting your new edits!)
Don't accept until this is resolved.

D3ath3657

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Re: [3DS] Fire Emblem Fates - "Lost in Thoughts All Alone" by D3ath3657
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2018, 03:01:39 AM »

Just saw your newest edit; that's much better now! I'll accept this now if you're satisfied.

If you're content with the layout, then so am I. I'd also like to thank you; your standards have resulted in me learning a valuable lesson in terms of editing.

Don't accept until this is resolved.

I have the feeling it's going to take a while...
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