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Author Topic: [GBA] Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga - "Come On!" (Replacement) by Supahstar Saga  (Read 651 times)

WaluigiTime64

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Yeah but a Challenge Arrangement type means checking all of the notes again.
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Supahstar Saga

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What do you mean by "check them again"?
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Latios212

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This strikes me as a bit discourteous. How would you feel if I found a wrong note or other minor error in your sheet, all other things perfect, and decided to arrange it myself to replace yours?

The logic behind challenge replacements is that the old sheet is of low quality and in need of replacing. Edit replacements are the way to go for small fixes.
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Supahstar Saga

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Sure, they may be minor errors, but there are a lot of them.
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Dudeman

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It may help your case if you could go through and specifically point out the errors you found in Static's sheet, and then show what you fixed.
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Latios212

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Sure, they may be minor errors, but there are a lot of them.
You didn't address my post. Everything you mentioned so far is either subjective or fixable by a couple of clicks.
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Supahstar Saga

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Okay, I'll list the issues I see.

- Tempo is 140, should be 138 (yes, I used a tapper)

- First bass note in measures 1 and 2 should be dotted eighth note, not quarter note.

- Triads in bars 8, 16, 24 should be dyads

- No dynamic change or accents on the bridge

Things that aren't necessarily wrong, but I would do differently:

- Some off-beat eighth notes (e.g. fourth treble dyad) could be written as sixteenth notes.

- With three bars per line, the notes don't have a lot of space between them. Since this piece's rhythm is pretty complex, it could be a bit difficult to read.

- The key signature doesn't include the C-flat. Since the Mixolydian mode is fully consistent in this piece, I think it should be represented in the key signature.
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Static

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I agree with most of changes but I still have a few suggestions for you:

- The key should still be Db major, not Cb major. The Cb is an accidental, in this case a b7 scale degree. When notating key signatures, it's always better to go by the tonal center instead of based off whatever mode the piece is in or what accidentals are there.

- Your bass in m1-2 is wrong; mine is actually correct. actually after listening I see your bassline there is actually correct; I apologize

- In the LH in m3, 5, 7, and 9 on beat 3.5, that note should be staccato.

- Also, the beaming, while I know it's sometimes used, looks wonky and is unusual. I would suggest keeping normal beaming to make it easier to read imo, but if you think it helps enough to warrant the change, then by all means keep it.

- Those dotted 8ths in the LH on beat 4.25 of m12, 14, and 16 aren't actually there.

- I know you said the inversions in mine are inaccurate, which is true; but that was to preserve the original's voice leadings edit: your voice leadings are actually better after comparing it to the original

With that said, I don't see the point in this being a challenge replacement when you didn't really change much. The only substantial changes you made were inverting the chords, changing the tempo slightly, and removing the triads (which btw I had for a reason because that bottom note is actually in the original), which I think is good, but with those being the only substantial changes, you should've submitted this as an edit replacement. After all, stuff like this is the reason why there are multiple different replacement options in the first place.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 12:43:50 AM by Static »
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Supahstar Saga

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In response to your first point, I disagree with you. We have the same key signatures for Ionian and Aeolian, so why not for other modes? Here's a StackExchange post with more discussion: https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/930/key-signature-for-writing-in-modes-other-than-major-and-minor

For m3, 5, 7, 9, it's a bit complicated. Checking the sequence, this would be a verbatim transcription: http://i.imgur.com/fnqpvxc.png.
However, the low notes are both impractical to play and barely audible. I think that your option is the best, so I can change it.

I definitely hear two bass notes around m12, 14, 16.

The only reason I submitted this as a challenge is that I've had this arrangement for a while, and only submitted it to NSM now. If you really want me to submit as an edit, I can do that.
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mastersuperfan

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- The key should still be Db major, not Cb major. The Cb is an accidental, in this case a b7 scale degree. When notating key signatures, it's always better to go by the tonal center instead of based off whatever mode the piece is in or what accidentals are there.

^^

As I've seen, it's generally written with the tonal center, which came up in a discussion in an OoT submission way back. Olimar took a picture of a music theory book:

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(Though it doesn't explicitly mention key signatures, the description of the modes of major and minor suggest that we use major and minor key signatures for those modes, which is what we've generally been doing on the site.)

 And, to that guy in StackExchange, in D Phrygian, you'd write it with a Bb key signature and add Eb's, not write it with F# and C#.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 01:43:02 AM by mastersuperfan »
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Static

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I wholly aggree with msf's comment here, but I figured I'd add in this to help clarify even more.

Although you could definitely argue either way, I believe reserving the keysig for tonic identification and then using accidentals to signal the modes helps the reader out more. In this way, they can easily tell what the tonic is as well as what mode the peice is in.

As far as the replacement thing goes, I'm perfectly fine with you keeping this as a challenge replacement. However, in the future, remember to keep in mind that we do have other ways of replacing files, including edit replacements as well as the sheet music errors thread for smaller adjustments like a couple wrong notes or tempo issues.
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Altissimo

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im one of those people who believes in the virtue of notating mode over tonal center in key sig but trust me when i say you are not going to convince any updater of that, just leave it as Db and dont argue lmao its a waste of breath
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ThatHiddenCharacter

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im one of those people who believes in the virtue of notating mode over tonal center in key sig but trust me when i say you are not going to convince any updater of that, just leave it as Db and dont argue lmao its a waste of breath
I agree with Alti. I have a song that is in the exact same situation, except the minor variations of these keys. Tonal, the song is Eb minor, but going by accidentals, the song is Ab minor. There's no use arguing with the updaters on this because they are the ones who have to accept the piece for it to be on-site.
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Supahstar Saga

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Should I just submit a new version through the NSM bot, then?
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Latios212

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You can edit your submission through the NSM Panel.
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