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Author Topic: [Wii] The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - "Herd Game" by Lkjhgfdsa_77  (Read 478 times)

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Submission Information:

Series: The Legend of Zelda
Game: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Console: Nintendo Wii
Title: Herd Game
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Lkjhgfdsa_77
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 07:35:58 PM by Lkjhgfdsa_77 »
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Lkjhgfdsa_77

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Re: [Wii] The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - "Herd Game" by Lkjhgfdsa_77
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 06:22:39 PM »


A few things -
 - m1-2 - there's noise here that I don't know how to put in the left hand
 - m4, 6, 8 - is the notation for the ornamentation okay?
 - m11-18 LH - it's lower than the other parts and I'm not exactly sure about the notes
 - m11 - NotePad can't add proper double bars (and NASF doesn't work) so I used a line
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Re: [Wii] The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - "Herd Game" by Lkjhgfdsa_77
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017, 09:21:01 AM »

- m1-2 - there's noise here that I don't know how to put in the left hand
I would at the very least include the bass that plays on every beat of those two measures. There's also a xylophone-like ringing that you could add to the end of m2, and you might be able to drop in some chords into the LH if you listen carefully. Try to reduce the speed of that section, have a listen and pick out those voices. :)

- m4, 6, 8 - is the notation for the ornamentation okay?
I think it's appropriate... but don't take my word for it.

- m11-18 LH - it's lower than the other parts and I'm not exactly sure about the notes
Not quite sure what you mean by this as the accompaniment sounds similar to the one before m11. You're on the right track, but try to distinguish where the bass plays and where the banjo(?) strums. Often where there is a quarter note on the last beat of a bar it should actually be two eighth notes.
Speaking of this section, I'd bring the RH up an octave higher here, and m14 could use a tremolo as well.

- m11 - NotePad can't add proper double bars (and NASF doesn't work) so I used a line
I made that adjustment for you, as well as added an example of how to beam the notes. While 4/4 time generally beams four eighth notes together, off-beat rhythms all throughout the LH and some parts of the RH should have tied notes instead. I changed the LH in m3 and the RH in m11 to show what I mean: [Link to file]

Sorry for not being very specific, but I hope this gives you a small push in the right direction. :)
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Re: [Wii] The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - "Herd Game" by Lkjhgfdsa_77
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017, 06:20:53 PM »

I would at the very least include the bass that plays on every beat of those two measures. There's also a xylophone-like ringing that you could add to the end of m2, and you might be able to drop in some chords into the LH if you listen carefully. Try to reduce the speed of that section, have a listen and pick out those voices. :)
I was able to figure out the bass in this section. Added.

I'd bring the RH up an octave higher here, and m14 could use a tremolo as well.
Did both of these. Used an 8va on the note in m18.

Not quite sure what you mean by this as the accompaniment sounds similar to the one before m11. You're on the right track, but try to distinguish where the bass plays and where the banjo(?) strums. Often where there is a quarter note on the last beat of a bar it should actually be two eighth notes.
I was referring to how I notated it before; it was lower than the previous accompaniment and it seemed too high when brought up an octave. I did a lot of work on this section; I brought the banjo up an octave and was able to pick out more bass. I'm debating whether to separate the bass and banjo into layers; I did what I'm thinking of in m11-12, 14, and 18.

I made that adjustment for you, as well as added an example of how to beam the notes. While 4/4 time generally beams four eighth notes together, off-beat rhythms all throughout the LH and some parts of the RH should have tied notes instead. I changed the LH in m3 and the RH in m11 to show what I mean: [Link to file]
Used the new double bar and tied all other notes.

There's also some formatting quirks to be fixed - m18 is spread over 1 system at the very bottom and the layer 2 beams are cutting into the copyright. I would like to keep this in 1 page if possible.
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Re: [Wii] The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - "Herd Game" by Lkjhgfdsa_77
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 09:48:36 AM »

That was quick :) I've updated the link with a new MUS file that has some formatting fixes. You'll still need to do some more work on that LH starting from m11. Usually, once I'd finish notating every layer note for note, I would skim through everything to check if it's playable. The tempo is at a reasonably fast pace in this piece, at which it would be difficult to play so many jumps in the LH. Often moving notes an octave up or down solves this issue, such as what I have included in m11-12 for you. (Note that I haven't checked the accuracy of the notes so it would be worth to have a listen to each instrument at a slow speed at least 2-3 times to make sure they're all correct pitch-wise)
Hope that helps a wee bit.
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Sounds great!

There are some spots where you've got some note conflicts. For example, measure 6. The right hand holds down the D but the left hand apparently needs it pretty much right away; thus killing any ability to sustain it. Measure 5 you have both hands landing on the same B at the same time but that's usually fixed just by putting parentheses on the LH one.
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Lkjhgfdsa_77

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That was quick :) I've updated the link with a new MUS file that has some formatting fixes. You'll still need to do some more work on that LH starting from m11. Usually, once I'd finish notating every layer note for note, I would skim through everything to check if it's playable. The tempo is at a reasonably fast pace in this piece, at which it would be difficult to play so many jumps in the LH. Often moving notes an octave up or down solves this issue, such as what I have included in m11-12 for you. (Note that I haven't checked the accuracy of the notes so it would be worth to have a listen to each instrument at a slow speed at least 2-3 times to make sure they're all correct pitch-wise)
Hope that helps a wee bit.
Used this file and attempted to make some changes for playability. Added staccato markings to the bass so it wouldn't sound to muddy.

Sounds great!

There are some spots where you've got some note conflicts. For example, measure 6. The right hand holds down the D but the left hand apparently needs it pretty much right away; thus killing any ability to sustain it. Measure 5 you have both hands landing on the same B at the same time but that's usually fixed just by putting parentheses on the LH one.
Added the parentheses on m5 but I'm not sure what I should do in m6.
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I noticed several things that could improve your score in various ways:
  • The piece is clearly in G major. It should have an F♯ in the key signature, even if doesn't contain that many F♯ (even if it didn't contain any F♯ at all).
  • m1-2:
    • Left hand: the A♭ can be at a lover octave. Moreover, I would actually play those notes as octaves, so it would sound a lot less empty.
    • Right hand: the notes to be played are right technically... They're not written in the correct way armonically, though. All the bass notes are harmonized with major triads. That means, harmonically, that the notes over the B should be B - D♯ - F♯, and the notes over the D should be D - F# - A. What you did is that you wrote the D♯ as E♭, and the F♯ as G♭. Now, I know that on the piano it's technically the same key, and I also know you used E♭ in the first harmony, but any decent composer would tell that what you wrote is just wrong: B - D♯ is a major third, while B - E♭ is a diminished fourth. They're the same keys on the piano, but they're 2 completely different things on a score. Now, I can't explain to you in detail how it works, but I highly suggest to correct like you can see in the following image, because it's actually also easier to sight-read (since sight-reading is highly based on knowledge of harmony).
      Spoiler
      [close]
      Also notice the cautionary naturals on the F in the second bar. That also helps in making the score more readable. Anyway, considering you should also change the key signature, those naturals should become mandatory.
  • General comment on the ornamentation: I think it's pretty personal honestly. That little glissando effect in the original music can't be reproduced on the piano, so you can write it pretty much in any way and it wouldn't be "wrong". Someone could tell you, for example, that the various acciaccaturas should actually be tones, and not semitones. But that's just an imitation of an effect, so it's no big deal.
  • Considering that, I would change m6 to something like this (I also didn't agree with what you wrote in the left hand actually, so you should also change m10 accordingly):
    Spoiler
    [close]
    This way, that bar is actually playable (it's unnecessarily hard the way you wrote it, the left hand takes the note the right hand is supposed to hold after just a sixtheenth), and the left hand doesn't lose anything (the D I removed is played by the right hand as you can see).
  • Now, from m11 onward, I don't agree with what you did at all. You basically started to give more importance to the bass. Doing that, you needed to lower the banjo part an octave, so it was playable. I probably understand why you did this: the banjo part is more difficult to hear since there are new instruments in that section that kinda cover its sound, while the bass is still pretty clear. The problem is that now the banjo part is in a very low register of the piano, so that part just doesn't sound right anyway. I suggest to just rewrite the whole left hand, using the same kind of accompaniment you wrote in the first part (in which you raised the bass an octave, although you probably didn't even realize). For example, I would start with something like this (I also included m10):
    Spoiler
    [close]
    I'm not saying you should start like this, it's just an example, it's probably possible to do better than that.
  • One last thing, for the last bar: I feel that the tremolo of the xylophone (or whatever percussive instrument that is) is pretty important in the last bar, since it's the characteristic instrument of this second section, and you also put a tremolo in m14 after all. I understand that you probably wrote it like that so the right hand could take some notes in the left hand staff, but since you would probably need to change the left hand anyway, you should try to find a way that doesn't require to use the help of the right hand.
There are other harmony-related corrections to be done, but this are the most important currently.

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  • The piece is clearly in G major. It should have an F♯ in the key signature, even if doesn't contain that many F♯ (even if it didn't contain any F♯ at all).
Fixed.

Quote
  • m1-2:
    • Left hand: the A♭ can be at a lover octave. Moreover, I would actually play those notes as octaves, so it would sound a lot less empty.
    • Right hand: the notes to be played are right technically... They're not written in the correct way armonically, though. All the bass notes are harmonized with major triads. That means, harmonically, that the notes over the B should be B - D♯ - F♯, and the notes over the D should be D - F# - A. What you did is that you wrote the D♯ as E♭, and the F♯ as G♭. Now, I know that on the piano it's technically the same key, and I also know you used E♭ in the first harmony, but any decent composer would tell that what you wrote is just wrong: B - D♯ is a major third, while B - E♭ is a diminished fourth. They're the same keys on the piano, but they're 2 completely different things on a score. Now, I can't explain to you in detail how it works, but I highly suggest to correct like you can see in the following image, because it's actually also easier to sight-read (since sight-reading is highly based on knowledge of harmony).
      Spoiler
      [close]
      Also notice the cautionary naturals on the F in the second bar. That also helps in making the score more readable. Anyway, considering you should also change the key signature, those naturals should become mandatory.
Fixed all of these.

Quote
  • I would change m6 to something like this (I also didn't agree with what you wrote in the left hand actually, so you should also change m10 accordingly):
    Spoiler
    [close]
    This way, that bar is actually playable (it's unnecessarily hard the way you wrote it, the left hand takes the note the right hand is supposed to hold after just a sixtheenth), and the left hand doesn't lose anything (the D I removed is played by the right hand as you can see).
I added parentheses around the note played by both hands on the left hand. I also updated other iterations of the ornamentation with the correct timing.

Quote
  • Now, from m11 onward, I don't agree with what you did at all. You basically started to give more importance to the bass. Doing that, you needed to lower the banjo part an octave, so it was playable. I probably understand why you did this: the banjo part is more difficult to hear since there are new instruments in that section that kinda cover its sound, while the bass is still pretty clear. The problem is that now the banjo part is in a very low register of the piano, so that part just doesn't sound right anyway. I suggest to just rewrite the whole left hand, using the same kind of accompaniment you wrote in the first part (in which you raised the bass an octave, although you probably didn't even realize). For example, I would start with something like this (I also included m10):
    Spoiler
    [close]
    I'm not saying you should start like this, it's just an example, it's probably possible to do better than that.
I moved the left hand up an octave but kept the two layers. I left the bass out of the first section because if it was in, it would be a decision between  having impossible hand intervals or striking the same note directly after in the banjo part. In addition, I only hear the banjo on the downbeat in the first section, so the chords still function fine. It works in two layers in the second section because both parts can be played together without problems. When I arrange I like to show when different instruments are being played, and what I have now is what I think to be a good way of showing it. I understand that it doesn't make sense symmetry-wise, and you have any other ways to notate t I would be happy to hear them.

Quote
  • One last thing, for the last bar: I feel that the tremolo of the xylophone (or whatever percussive instrument that is) is pretty important in the last bar, since it's the characteristic instrument of this second section, and you also put a tremolo in m14 after all. I understand that you probably wrote it like that so the right hand could take some notes in the left hand staff, but since you would probably need to change the left hand anyway, you should try to find a way that doesn't require to use the help of the right hand.
Added. I could hear that a tremolo was there but I couldn't quite make out the notes; F# and D made sense chord-wise so I used those. If you can hear them better than I could feel free to suggest alternatives.

By what you've posted before here and on your YouTube channel you're likely much more experienced than me in terms of piano music, so if you would like to suggest anything else feel free to do so![/list]
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Now, from m11 onward, I don't agree with what you did at all. You basically started to give more importance to the bass. Doing that, you needed to lower the banjo part an octave, so it was playable. I probably understand why you did this: the banjo part is more difficult to hear since there are new instruments in that section that kinda cover its sound, while the bass is still pretty clear. The problem is that now the banjo part is in a very low register of the piano, so that part just doesn't sound right anyway. I suggest to just rewrite the whole left hand, using the same kind of accompaniment you wrote in the first part (in which you raised the bass an octave, although you probably didn't even realize). For example, I would start with something like this (I also included m10):
Spoiler
[close]
I'm not saying you should start like this, it's just an example, it's probably possible to do better than that.
I was browsing this sheet and independently reached the same conclusion, although for a slightly different reason. While it's nice to differentiate the different parts, that doesn't necessarily help the performer. It's simpler and less cluttery to combine layers as you did in the A section. What's more, measures 14 and 18 seem unnecessarily difficult to play. Be nice to the performer. (If you want my two cents, I would have the LH play the banjo part and forego the bass when it gets too hard to play.)
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Lkjhgfdsa_77

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I was browsing this sheet and independently reached the same conclusion, although for a slightly different reason. While it's nice to differentiate the different parts, that doesn't necessarily help the performer. It's simpler and less cluttery to combine layers as you did in the A section. What's more, measures 14 and 18 seem unnecessarily difficult to play. Be nice to the performer. (If you want my two cents, I would have the LH play the banjo part and forego the bass when it gets too hard to play.)

Put the section in one layer, put parentheses around a bass note in m14, and raised some bass an octave in m18. I'm not the best at discerning difficulty, especially in faster sections (the left hand is very jumpy to begin with), so if you could look at it and see if you can make some other tweaks you are free to do so.
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Alright, going through this one and making a bunch of changes. Here's a list...
- Space. The sheet needs more of it.
- The intro should be a 4/4 bar followed by a 3/4 bar. You can tell that the music just doesn't line up right in the version you have now.
- Also in the intro: Gb->F# (D major chord)
- m. 5 and 9: changing the dotted eighth on beat 1 RH to an eight + 16th rest; there's a discernible rest there.
- m. 6 and 10: changing the bass to have Bb-Fn higher instead of what you had before - it's more accurate, flows better, and is easier to play now.
- m. 11 and onwards - suggest omitting the bass note on beat 2 for simplicity and to reflect the way you wrote out the bass in the previous measures.
- m. 12 - beat 4 eighth->quarter
- I redid the LH of 14 and 18 in the way that I would personally write it. As mentioned above, I don't think keeping the extra layers is worth the sudden difficulty spike. See if you like.

Here's the file with changes: [MUS]
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Alright, going through this one and making a bunch of changes. Here's a list...
- Space. The sheet needs more of it.
- The intro should be a 4/4 bar followed by a 3/4 bar. You can tell that the music just doesn't line up right in the version you have now.
- Also in the intro: Gb->F# (D major chord)
- m. 5 and 9: changing the dotted eighth on beat 1 RH to an eight + 16th rest; there's a discernible rest there.
- m. 6 and 10: changing the bass to have Bb-Fn higher instead of what you had before - it's more accurate, flows better, and is easier to play now.
- m. 11 and onwards - suggest omitting the bass note on beat 2 for simplicity and to reflect the way you wrote out the bass in the previous measures.
- m. 12 - beat 4 eighth->quarter
- I redid the LH of 14 and 18 in the way that I would personally write it. As mentioned above, I don't think keeping the extra layers is worth the sudden difficulty spike. See if you like.

Here's the file with changes: [MUS]

Put this onto the submission. Your left hand edits are good; they're both playable and accurate.
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