NinSunMoon: NinSheetMusic Official Friendly Semicompetitive Professional Tourney

[mastersuperfan]

The rules don't seem to suggest that at all. I own a cartridge game of Pokémon Sun, and I obtained it in my game legally by picking it up from the delivery man in the Pokémon Center. Whether or not I needed the demo shouldn't matter, and clearly Echo interpreted the rules that way as well.

[mikey]

by that logic we would allow pokemon from pokebank and poke transporter
I'll be honest, I wasn't thinking about specifically greninja when I wrote the rules, but it's true to say Greninja isn't legally obtainable within a cartridge of sun and moon (requires external software)

[mastersuperfan]

I don't see what requiring external software has to do with legally obtaining the Pokémon within the game when the Pokémon itself is being generated in the game as you pick it up, rather than a direct trade/transfer from another game. The Greninja hardly qualifies as a direct trade/transfer since it's not actually the same Greninja getting transferred. All the demo is doing is giving you access to a Pokémon that's already in S/M.

[mikey]

are you sure the greninja isn't the same
who's the OT of the greninja
Ash, right?

[mastersuperfan]

By that logic, Pokémon from in-game trades would be forbidden as well.

[mikey]

do bred greninjas have battle bond?

[mastersuperfan]

Ash-Greninja can't breed, but I don't see why that matters. The point is that the Pokémon is generated within the cartridge itself, not in the demo. When you pick it up, its nature and IVs are randomly generated there and then, as you pick it up. In this sense Ash-Greninja is akin to an event Pokémon; it's hardly different from the event Munchlax or Magearna. Would you ban Snorlium Z just because it requires an external factor, even though the item is first given to you in the game itself? If this tournament were happening in Generation 4, would you ban dual-only Pokémon even though you catch them in the 4th Gen game?

If you're hellbent on opposing a restriction on Ash-Greninja, I'd have to prepare a new team member, and by this point I don't think I have the time nor the patience for that.

[mikey]

like I said: when I made the rules, I forgot about greninja entirely.
it's pretty different from events though.
how sure are you on nature and IVs being randomly generated?  I thought the IVs were fixed at always 20something/31/</31/</31.
And I thought the nature was generated in the demo, but I wasn't exactly paying attention.
obviously since not only echo but now you too are using greninja it's a bit late to fix any of this but I think the simplest interpretation of the rules would ban greninja

[Dudeman]

It's okay MSF, you can always forfeit. Kappa

[mastersuperfan]

I soft reset for quite a bit to get a good nature on my Greninja, even though the nature in the demo is always Hardy. I will admit that the IVs are actually preset, which is an error on my part, but it still means that the Greninja you get in game is not the same Greninja that you get in the demo.

To me, the simplest interpretation of the rules would be the one that allows Pokébank, because any Pokémon transferred through Bank is obtained legally, but since we discussed not using Pokébank at the beginning, it seemed to me that the simplest interpretation allowed the use of any Pokémon that originated in Sun/Moon.

[mikey]

I think the operative word was "within" and my using that was the way I excluded pokebank

[mastersuperfan]

Yes, I noticed that. I'm saying that the Ash-Greninja itself originates within Sun/Moon, even if the demo is required to access it.

[Dudeman]

omg just let them use it we're a sheet music forum for pete's sake

[mikey]

obviously since not only echo but now you too are using greninja it's a bit late to fix any of this

I think your logic is a bit flimsy though, obviously gren did not come from within the game otherwise you could have obtained it without the demo
the event pokemon are a lot different than a demo pokemon

[mastersuperfan]

I'm not sure I understand your point. Just because the demo is required doesn't mean that the Greninja comes from the demo. The randomized nature is evidence that the Greninja is generated at the point you pick it up. See my earlier point on dual-slot Pokémon in Gen 4; do you consider them as not originating within the Gen 4 game?

We established that we were playing this tourney in a pre-Pokébank meta, so that's how I interpreted the rules. In no way did you initially make it clear that Greninja was not allowed; it was only at the point you explicitly said so, very recently, that this rule of yours was revealed, and by that point I, and presumably Echo as well, had spent time preparing Ash-Greninja for competitive battling. Furthermore, you even said you didn't have Greninja in mind when you wrote the rules, so what reason do you have to go out of your way now to prevent it from being used?