Hosting and Balancing

[MaestroUGC]

Let the better game win!

[Bird]

Thiannon had an interesting post earlier that I'm going to mention something about!

I was hoping to play this game, but judging from the comments, I didn't miss much. Glad you got a chance to host, though, Toby.

Birdy-Sauce, we need to have a Proper Adult Discussion about Game Balance Volatility or something. Also you should hoast mroe.

What he's getting at about Game Balance Volatility, is the problems that may arise if your game's balance depends on one or two key roles. In "Have it Your Way," one of the humans most powerful tools, the Seer, died night 1 and there was nothing anyone could possibly have done about it, especially since he didn't know who he was! It's probably best to design games so that they're not too dependent on any one role, and no team will be significantly crippled early on in a random wolfing/lynch.

This is also a great argument in favor of the wolves knowing each other, since one of the wolves randomly wolfing another wolf kind of screws the team over!

[Toby]

But is there much we can REALLY do about these sort of things?

I'm currently designing a game where no ability ever dies out, when you lose it the next person gets it.

[BlackDragonSlayer]

What he's getting at about Game Balance Volatility, is the problems that may arise if your game's balance depends on one or two key roles. In "Have it Your Way," one of the humans most powerful tools, the Seer, died night 1 and there was nothing anyone could possibly have done about it, especially since he didn't know who he was! It's probably best to design games so that they're not too dependent on any one role, and no team will be significantly crippled early on in a random wolfing/lynch.

This is also a great argument in favor of the wolves knowing each other, since one of the wolves randomly wolfing another wolf kind of screws the team over!

Is agree, but about the last paragraph:
Unless a major role/roles is/are wolfed by an "average" wolf, then they should be fine, and, in many cases, although it might be risky, may help a single wolf keep cover.
For example, in Uprising Madness, when SocialFox wolfed his partners, but otherwise survived nearly undetected.

But is there much we can REALLY do about these sort of things?

I'm currently designing a game where no ability ever dies out, when you lose it the next person gets it.

That might be interesting:
Like one special per team, and if/when that person dies, it's passed to the "next in line"?

[vermilionvermin]

Just because one wolf was able to overcome that doesn't mean it should have to happen. 

Unless the game is specifically designed to accommodate that mechanic, wolves should almost always know each other.  Wolves Not knowing each other makes the game more challenging for both teams.  Wolves can't coordinate wolfings or wolf rushes or powers.  And what a lot of people ignore is that it makes it a lot more difficult on the humans as well.  Because the wolves don't know each other, you can't make any accusations based on that.  For example, the accusation I made against Liggy last game, along with Bird's accusations against tzp/blueflower/Spitllama, don't make any sense if the wolves don't know their partners.  The only time I can think of when wolves not knowing each other helped activity was in Maestro's Meph game, and that was only because Socialfox made a mistake.

And then there's the volatility stuff Bird was talking about.

[Bird]

But is there much we can REALLY do about these sort of things?

Usually? Not really. But you should still try and avoid it.

[Toby]

Is agree, but about the last paragraph:
Unless a major role/roles is/are wolfed by an "average" wolf, then they should be fine, and, in many cases, although it might be risky, may help a single wolf keep cover.
For example, in Uprising Madness, when SocialFox wolfed his partners, but otherwise survived nearly undetected.
That might be interesting:
Like one special per team, and if/when that person dies, it's passed to the "next in line"?

There's a seer, guard, and a vig in each team. There are 4/5 teams. When the seer dies, the power is moved on to the guard (he will then choose either a seer or a guard that night), if the guard dies, the power is moved on to the vig (he will then need to choose to guard of kill each night). Etc.

[Toby]

.. But then I do have multiple ideas of how I could work it so I don't yet have a finished idea.

My first game I posted here, the harry potter one, that had a game where abilities where turned into 1 shot whenever someone died, you had to claim it into the thread to get the power.

[Yugi]

What do you think about this game?

TWG: Horror Movie REDUX

Game notes: Death posts due to night deaths may now contain game information (but not votes). However, you may only make a death post with permission from the host, due to a mechanic from Freddy Kreuger.

Roles

1. Jason - Teams up with Normal Slasher to wolf. When Lynched, sends a PM to the host to instantly kill someone.
2. Michael Myers - Knows who Jason is.
3. The Jigsaw Killer. - Knows he's a slasher, but doesn't know his teammates. Can vigi someone each night phase.

4. Cop:- Guardian - If he guards Jason or Myers, he dies instantly. If he guards the Jigsaw killer. Jigsaw cannot kill that night.
5. Nurse - Seer/Reviver: Has 4 seers and 4 revives. Can activate one each night phase.
6. Cheerleader/pornstar - Each Phase a random player is chosen. When she is attacked or lynched, that player is attacked or lynched in her place. Then it is announced to the thread that "PLAYERNAME, the cheerleader, has run upstairs! Does not know her role."
7. Psychic Dude - Can instantly end a phase by posting GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO in the thread. Phantoms caused by this do not count. Power can only be used once. Can bring one player back to life.
8. Human: Human
9. Alice- The first time she is targeted for killing, the killing fails and she will be told the identity of Jason, however, she cannot tell anyone this imformation, and her votes count for Zero.
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
11231231231231231231231231231239.CROWARIOHWIODH MILLERSeered Red, does not know this.
13. Freddy Kreuger - Traitor - Counts for the Human Side. Has the option to be charismatic each day phase. Has vigilante powers which he can use in any phase, which allow him to control the death post of his targets. The First time someone aims a killing target at him, it will fail.



Objectives
Wolf Victory: Kill enough so that wolves overide humans.
Humans:Kill all wolves and Freddy Kreugar.
Freddy Kreugar: Be last player standing.

[vermilionvermin]

I really like the death post game mechanic, and was actually thinking about designing a game involving something similar.

Can Jason choose when to randomly kill someone?  Can the cheerleader be killed by Jason's brutal power?  Do both Jason and the Normal Slasher need to be alive to wolf?

Crazy Ralph's posting restriction is difficult to enforce.  What happens if he forgets once?  Does he die instantly, do you correct him and thus confirm who he is, or do you just let it go and, in the eyes of most players, confirm him as something other than Crazy Ralph?  Additionally, all humans are just going to post in all caps bolded and end their posts with WHAHAHAHAHAHAHA in order to protect Crazy Ralph from being wolfed.  Additionally, the 1 in 4 power is pretty weak. 

Cheerleader's role is a lot more powerful than it might seem at first glance.  This person can claim and never be wolfed, freeing up the guardian to guard any other confirmed human.

Instantly ending the phase allows the psychic dude to not only confirm himself as a human, but also potentially rob the wolves and Freddy of any kills.  Ending Day phases early is bad because it reduces discussion and that's the key to TWG.

I'm also worried about how many humans know their role.  This isn't a big issue if Shane and Alice don't know who they are, but when you consider that people are going to be forced to counterclaim a specific role, that means a lot of people are going to be confirmed humans.

Shane's role doesn't serve much of a purpose other than to arbitrarily impact the game without either team having a say in it, so I'd suggest just making him a normal human.

Alice's role is unfortunate as well.  I'm not sure if she knows who she is, but I think both possibilities present problems.  If she does know who she is, you have seven humans who know who they are, and none of them have very useful powers.  The game becomes centered around counterclaims, with anywhere from three to six people being confirmed humans from the start simply based on a lack of a counterclaim.  If she doesn't know who she is, you have the problem of the wolves being arbitrarily screwed over because the person they killed happened to be Alice.  Like Crazy Ralph's role, her restriction on what she can and can't say is difficult.  I could see someone claiming Alice, and then voting everyone but the one person she can't vote in order to show everyone who Jason is.

Consider how difficult it is to win as Freddy, especially compared to the wolves' winning conditions.  There are three wolves and one Freddy.  There are two wolfings a night which can make it impossible for him to win, not to mention the possibility that he doesn't know what the wolves are going to claim, and as such has to claim blindly and hope he doesn't get lynched.  The charismatic power, death post control, and Crazy Ralph powers don't help him survive much.

[MaestroUGC]

Save the Cheerleader, save the world.

[Bird]

Save the Cheerleader, save the world.

like

season 1 anyway

[vermilionvermin]

TWG:  Zombies

As I mentioned in my last post here, I'm designing a game in which everyone gets a death posts, except for a few people, that is.  I'm expecting it to function as a pseudo-cardflip, in which people have to weigh the benefits of confirming their humanity with waiting until late in the game to give much-needed insight or push an important suspicion.

Wolves

1.  Master Wolf
2.  Wolf Shaman:  Does not get a death post
3.  Wolf Totem:  Once per game, may replace the Totem Guy's Totem with a Totem of his own.  He also gets two guesses of the Totem Guy's identity per day phase.  If the Totem Guy dies or takes over the role of another Zombie, he gets to write ALL the totems.  Does not get a death post

Humans

4.  Guardian:  In order to guard the seer or vigilante, must reduce their power use by 1 each attempted guarding.  He also gets three guesses of the Totem Guy's identity on Day 1.  When he dies, he has one phase to decide who he passes his power to.  If he selects a Wolf or a Zombie, that player will gain a guardian power (with the same limitations) and the ability to choose whether or not their vote counts.  If he selects a human, that player will lose their vote but gain a Guardian ability with the same limitations as the original Guardian.
5.  Seer:  5 uses of power.  May only use one per night.
6.  Vigilante:  3 uses of power.  May only use one per night.
7.  Human:  Told he/she is a human until his/her death.  May not make deathpost until confirmation that he/she is not a miller.
8.  Human: All human roles are the same.
9.  Human:
10.  Human:
11.  Human:
12.  Miller:  Told he/she is a human until his/her death.  I suggest you ask me whether or not you're a miller when you die because I may forget to notify you.  Does not get a death post
13.  Miller:  Told he/she is a human until his/her death.  I suggest you ask me whether or not you're a miller when you die because I may forget.  Does not get a death post

Zombies

14.  Zombie Leader:  Beginning Night 2, he may bite dead bodies. If, on any night, he bites the same player the Grave Robber resurrects, that person becomes a Zombie follower.  The Zombie leader may direct each one of his Zombie followers to kill one person per night.  May not be revived.  Does not know his partners.
15.  Grave Robber:  Beginning Night 2, he may choose one of the people who are in the graveyard each night to resurrect.  If he and the Zombie Leader choose the same person, that person will be revived and kill one person at the command of the Zombie leader PER NIGHT.  If he selects someone the Zombie Leader doesn't pick, that person can just come back to life.  Does not get a death post.  Does not know his partners.
16.  Totem Guy:  May post a Totem each night.  If, by Day 2, neither the Wolf Totem or Guardian have guessed his identity, he will learn the identities of the Zombie Leader and the Grave Robber.  If either the Zombie Leader or Grave Robber dies, he may take over for them, becoming green as well.  Does not get a death post.  May not be revived.  Does not know his partners.

Important notes:
1.  Zombie followers are people resurrected by the Grave Robber and bitten by the Zombie Leader on the same night.  If the Zombie leader bites someone on Night 3 and they're resurrected Night 4 (or vice versa), that person simply comes back to life.  Zombie followers do not count toward the Zombie win condition.
2.  If a person becomes a zombie follower once and is lynched, they can't become a zombie follower once more.  They could still theoretically be revived, they just can't be controlled to kill people.
3.  Win Conditions:  The humans win when they eliminate both the wolves and the Zombies.  The wolves win when their number equals the number of humans + the number of Zombies remaining.  The Zombies win when their number equals the number of humans + the number of Wolves remaining.  The Zombies' win condition overrides the wolves' win condition.

[Yugi]

Wait a totem is a message posted by a role that appears at the end of a phase right?

[vermilionvermin]

It's a message posted by the host at the end of a phase.  The totems choose what the message says.