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Author Topic: Hosting and Balancing  (Read 21272 times)

davy

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Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2013, 03:34:53 PM »


2) Colour-co-ordinate and number your roles.
 
Sex sells; just ask iDOWN. When a prospective player (and voter) looks at your game, he should see immediately how many wolves there are (red text), how many special humans there are (blue text), how many ambiguous roles exist (orange text), and the like. People are lazy, and they may not want to bother to read any structure synopsis you include at the bottom of your post. To make things as easy, stick to the traditional colour setup:
 
1. Wolf Role
2. Wolf Role
3. Wolf Role
 
4. Ambiguous Wolf Role
5. Ambiguous (Special) Human Role
 
6. Special Human Role
7. Special Human Role
8. Special Human Role
 
9. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
10. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
11. Human Role
12. Human Role
13. Human Role
14. Human Role
 
15. Unaffiliated Role
16. Unaffiliated Role
 
All wolf roles should be coloured red, including the Master Wolf, with the exception of any ambiguous wolf roles, such as the Wolf Spy or the Wolf Thief, which should be coloured orange. If your game includes a Wolf Spy, Wolf Thief, or other ambiguous wolf role, you must have at least one ambiguous human (the Millwright) or special human role. If you choose to include special humans among your oranges, be sure these are roles that could conceivably be faked by the Wolf Spy or Wolf Thief. The Coroner, for example, is almost impossible for a wolf to fake; it should never be coded orange.
 
All special humans should be coloured blue, or orange as outlined above. Humans with special attributes but no special powers can be coded green or blue, at the host's discretion. Loners and other roles with no wolf or human affiliation should be coloured purple. Roles with fixed human or wolf affiliation should not be coloured purple unless absolutely necessary for balance purposes.
 
Items are coloured pink for ease of reading.

I'd prefer another way of colour-co-ordinating and numbering roles:

Wolves:
1. Master Wolf (or any other colour it's seer'd)
2. Special Wolf Role
3. Normal Wolf Role

Unknowns/Independents/additional team
4. Main Unknown/Independent/additional team Role
5. Other Special Unknown/Independent/additional team Role
6. Normal Unknown/Independent/additional team Role

If there are no unaffilated roles, the additional team can also be colored purple.
If there is a traitor, the additional team should not be colored orange

Humans
7. Traitor
8. Seer-Type Special Human Role
9. Other Special Human Role
10. Guardian- or Reviver-Type Special Human Role
11. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
12. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
13. Human Role
14. Human Role
15. Millwright
16. Herring
17. Miller

Unafilated role
18. Unaffiliated Role

Unafilated role
19. Unaffiliated Role

When using multiple unafilated roles, one of the roles (usually the first) can also be coloured orange.

Items:
Item
3 (or any other number bigger than 1)Items

Only use the multiple number of items if those items can be in the game at the same time.

If you run out of colours, the next colours should be pink, black and white, because those colours differ the most from the colours already used.



I prefer having the team names above the team and the roles in the color in which the are seered. That way, everyone can immeadiately see how many roles of what team there are and in what colour they are seer'd (and since next to all games have a way of seering, that should be an important thing in every non-manhunt-game).

I added an extra team in case it's a game with more than two teams.

I removed the empty line between the special humans and the normal humans, as they count for the same team.

I added traitor for traitor purposes.

I changed the colour of the items to brown, as on NSM, if items are coloured, brown is the most used colour.

I added an empty line and a team name above the seccond unafilated role, since that role does not work together with the other unafilated role.

Finaly, I added a section for unfixed items.

Feel free to take anything from what I said here to the OP.

(I'm not quite sure what you mean by ambigious roles, can you explain?)



if you elect to write a story to accompany your game, you have an obligation to see it finished.

I think that since TWG III, there has never been a TWG on NSM with a finished story (except maybe XVI). Not many players care about the story, so I think there should not be such an obligation.

provide a story teaser

I never actually read these in the host sign-ups, so I don't know how much of a help this is.

Every game should have at least one MVP in them unless there was no player that stood out most valuable

Fixed, since otherwise you're contradicting yourself.
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Bird

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Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2013, 09:59:18 PM »

That was a suggestion more than a set of rules to adhere to. I don't even follow it to the letter (I make Master Wolves green and stuff). As long as it's clear what the teams are, what the roles are, and who is able to do what, you should be fine. Your ideas are all excellent though.

Anything that increases clarity is fine with me!

The story obligation only exists if you start a story. Don't start a story unless you're going to finish it, is what he's saying. And who knows, maybe stories will make a comeback someday?

I'll see about making a few changes to the guides though.
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Waddle Bro

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Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2013, 10:44:53 PM »

For some reason I thought this thread was to people help balance your games...
*awkward silence*
Holy shit I'm dumb
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Bird

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Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2013, 11:21:11 PM »

Just in case anyone else is confused, yes that is the point of this thread. But there's also going to be some discussion of hosting in general, and the guide in the second post. I think Nighthawk is writing a guide to balancing games as well, but if he doesn't I will.
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Waddle Bro

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Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2013, 11:22:34 PM »

I meant you guys would balance them for us. :P
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Bird

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Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2013, 11:24:57 PM »

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Or something like that anyway. We'll definitely help and provide suggestions if you post your games in this thread, but I don't know if we're going to do all the work for you.

We're actually still working out how much the TWC should be involved in balancing and checking games. We'll keep you all updated though.
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Bird

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Re: Hosting and Balancing
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2013, 10:17:31 PM »

verm took too long, so I added a game creation/balancing guide myself. I don't think it's particularly good, but it's better than nothing! Give it a read if you're at a loss for how to bring balance to your game, or if you are struggling to complete a game idea you had.
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Yugi

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Re: Hosting and Balancing
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2013, 11:59:09 PM »

hey could someone please balance this game

wolf
wolf
wolf
wolf
wolf
human
human
human
human
human

yes i know that its human sided
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Toby

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Re: Hosting and Balancing
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2013, 12:00:50 AM »

It's not fair, the seer doesn't know the difference between the wolf's and humans.
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Greg

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Re: Hosting and Balancing
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2013, 11:33:01 PM »

Bowser: Possesses a Dark Cannon that he can use to convert any character into trophy form once per night phase. When in trophy form, character's votes count for 0. Characters will not be notified if they are in trophy form. If a character is hit while in trophy form, they will die.
Ganondorf: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Wario: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Tabuu: Master wolf. Cannot be killed until Bowser, Ganondorf and Wario have died. Cannot be trophied. If lynched before the other three wolves are dead, a random player who voted for Tabuu will die instead. Gains a vigi power when Bowser, Ganondorf and Wario have died (not counted as trophying). Also, knows the other wolves' identities, but may not reveal himself to them in any way.

King Dedede: Can give a character a Dedede Brooch each night phase. The phase after this character is first trophied (or the next phase if the character is currently in trophy form), the character will revive from trophy form. This extends to reviving a character who is trophied twice (although they will still be in trophy form). Will fail on dead players, wolves, and himself.
Lucario: Can use its aura sight to investigate a player each night phase.
ROB: Miller.
Falco: If a wolf attempts to trophy him, their Dark Cannon will be destroyed. This only works once.
Mario: Can detrophy any live player once. If used on a player who is not trophied, the power is wasted.
Link: See Mario.
Samus: See Mario.
Marth: See Mario.
Snake: See Mario.
Sonic: If he votes for Tabuu, he disables Tabuu's Brutal effect. The first attempt to trophy him will fail.

As a note, none of the red wolves know the other wolves.
Thoughts? I'm considering giving Tabuu a kill for the entire game and adding a guardian, but I think that's slightly wolf-sided...

Bird

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Re: Hosting and Balancing
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2013, 01:24:43 AM »

Bowser: Possesses a Dark Cannon that he can use to convert any character into trophy form once per night phase. When in trophy form, character's votes count for 0. Characters will not be notified if they are in trophy form. If a character is hit while in trophy form, they will die.
Ganondorf: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Wario: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Tabuu: Master wolf. Cannot be killed until Bowser, Ganondorf and Wario have died. Cannot be trophied. If lynched before the other three wolves are dead, a random player who voted for Tabuu will die instead. Gains a vigi power when Bowser, Ganondorf and Wario have died (not counted as trophying). Also, knows the other wolves' identities, but may not reveal himself to them in any way.

King Dedede: Can give a character a Dedede Brooch each night phase. The phase after this character is first trophied (or the next phase if the character is currently in trophy form), the character will revive from trophy form. This extends to reviving a character who is trophied twice (although they will still be in trophy form). Will fail on dead players, wolves, and himself.
Lucario: Can use its aura sight to investigate a player each night phase.
ROB: Miller.
Falco: If a wolf attempts to trophy him, their Dark Cannon will be destroyed. This only works once.
Mario: Can detrophy any live player once. If used on a player who is not trophied, the power is wasted.
Link: See Mario.
Samus: See Mario.
Marth: See Mario.
Snake: See Mario.
Sonic: If he votes for Tabuu, he disables Tabuu's Brutal effect. The first attempt to trophy him will fail.

As a note, none of the red wolves know the other wolves.
Thoughts? I'm considering giving Tabuu a kill for the entire game and adding a guardian, but I think that's slightly wolf-sided...

I'm assuming the miller doesn't know he's a miller. How do wolfings work in your game? And what does "investigate" mean? Is it the same as seering?

What's stopping Tabuu from claiming on night 1, and having all the wolves know each other? Like, what is the penalty? And how will it be enforced? What if he makes a joking post about being Tabuu?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 02:17:52 AM by Bird »
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Liggy

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Re: Hosting and Balancing
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2013, 01:57:44 AM »

Also, I think it's a little unfair to have restrictions on what certain can say or reveal.  It limits possible strategies, and often everyone who is human says the one thing that the person with special role can't say.  (That is, in this game everyone except Tabuu would be claiming Tabuu in order to out him).  That's not to say there's no exceptions, but as a general rule it's better not to have roles like that.  Also, they're kinda hard to enforce anyways.
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Bird

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Re: Hosting and Balancing
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2013, 02:18:21 AM »

Also, I think it's a little unfair to have restrictions on what certain can say or reveal.  It limits possible strategies, and often everyone who is human says the one thing that the person with special role can't say.  (That is, in this game everyone except Tabuu would be claiming Tabuu in order to out him).  That's not to say there's no exceptions, but as a general rule it's better not to have roles like that.  Also, they're kinda hard to enforce anyways.
This was my main complaint about Maestro's last game.
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Greg

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Re: Hosting and Balancing
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2013, 05:16:27 PM »

I'm assuming the miller doesn't know he's a miller. How do wolfings work in your game? And what does "investigate" mean? Is it the same as seering?

What's stopping Tabuu from claiming on night 1, and having all the wolves know each other? Like, what is the penalty? And how will it be enforced? What if he makes a joking post about being Tabuu?
ROB should have the same ability as the rest of the humans, there are no wolfings per se (all kills are through Dark Cannon unless I give Tabuu a vigi), and yeah investigating is seering.

As for Tabuu, I'd probably just kill him off if he revealed himself. I'd envisaged him as something of a manipulator who's supposed to try to draw suspicion away from the wolves.

@Liggy, I could just make a rule stopping people from exploiting that (like in Bird's BOWSER game with the rule against exploiting switches), but that might make the game complicated. I could just give Tabuu a seering and take off the whole deal about knowing the other wolves, though. Obviously in that case I wouldn't be able to give him a vigi.

Toby

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Re: Hosting and Balancing
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2013, 01:18:57 AM »

Vig
Vig
Vig
Guard
Seer


Guard
Guard
Guard
Vig
Seer


Seer
Seer
Seer
Vig
Guard



Teams know each other.

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