News:

Subscribe to our Twitch Channel!

Main Menu

Religion

Started by wariopiano, September 05, 2012, 05:08:04 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Pianist Da Sootopolis

Quote from: FireArrow on November 12, 2015, 03:28:35 PM"You should believe that murder is bad."
No, you should know inherently that murder is bad because you wouldn't want it done to yourself or to anyone you love.
what is shitpost

Waddle Bro

Quote from: FireArrow on November 12, 2015, 03:28:35 PM"You should believe that murder is bad."
you're looking at it from the modern society's perspective, but try to view it universally. murder can still be ethically justified, even though it's clearly not accepted in any society. besides, there are forms of society that would be completely okay with murdering.
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on November 12, 2015, 06:37:50 PMNo, you should know inherently that murder is bad because you wouldn't want it done to yourself or to anyone you love.
Nothing is inherently good or bad and if you're trying to apply the golden rule, you should note that a murderer can value death as an intrinsic value. a murderer for example could want to altruistically "set you free" from your mortal body and would be okay if someone else "set him free" as well, so it wouldn't be irrational.

Pianist Da Sootopolis

I should've been clearer: murder=/= assisted suicide or euthanasia.
Murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
IE the victim doesn't want to die. And I think that's the kind of murder FireArrow was talking about, as well.
what is shitpost

JDMEK5

Quote from: Waddle Bro on November 12, 2015, 07:19:30 PMNothing is inherently good or bad and if you're trying to apply the golden rule, you should note that a murderer can value death as an intrinsic value. a murderer for example could want to altruistically "set you free" from your mortal body and would be okay if someone else "set him free" as well, so it wouldn't be irrational.
I was taught the golden rule as a kid.

The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
"Today's goal strongly involves not dying. Because nobody likes to wake up dead."

My Arrangements
Finale Version(s): Finale Notepad 2012, Finale 2012, Finale v26

FireArrow

Quote from: Waddle Bro on November 12, 2015, 07:19:30 PMyou're looking at it from the modern society's perspective, but try to view it universally. murder can still be ethically justified, even though it's clearly not accepted in any society. besides, there are forms of society that would be completely okay with murdering.

There are some morals integral to the way human beings and society work that we should not question on a practical level. It is fun to think about things the way your presenting them on a philosophical level however.

Anyways, your original post was not relevant to the point yellow makes, only to his incorrect use of the word believe (which was for satirical purposes given this thread is about religion.)
Quote from: Yellow on November 12, 2015, 02:59:59 PMYou should believe that your experiences and memories aren't as reliable as we make them out to be.
This is a statement about the way humans view their own anecdotal evidence. It's not a subjective/unprovable conjecture, which would be what your use of the word belief would imply.
Quote from: Dudeman on January 23, 2017, 05:35:59 PM
straight from the department of redundancy department

SlowPokemon

Quote from: Waddle Bro on November 12, 2015, 05:00:58 PMNo in contrary, you should question me, like all beliefs. Beliefs are questionable. I'm not here to make you to think like me, I'm just trying to encourage you to think critically.

This. Your beliefs mean nothing if you don't have a reason for having them.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on April 21, 2016, 02:56:11 PM
Fuck logic, that shit is boring, lame and does not always support my opinions.

Dude

I believe I can fly.

Dude

I believe I can touch the sky.

Waddle Bro

#323
Quote from: FireArrow on November 12, 2015, 08:42:01 PMThere are some morals integral to the way human beings and society work that we should not question on a practical level. It is fun to think about things the way your presenting them on a philosophical level however.

Anyways, your original post was not relevant to the point yellow makes, only to his incorrect use of the word believe (which was for satirical purposes given this thread is about religion.)
yeah I got what yellow meant, but I just wanted to point out how there can't be any authority telling you how to think, because the individual is the one who gives meaning to everything, not anyone else.
also ya i'm bit of a meta-level freak. though imo practical level morals should always be questioned as well, just in case the "practical level" the society thinks is the practical level happens to be irrational. like holocaust, people didn't question it and went along with it.
man i love talking about this as i get to learn more about stuff :] it's fun and interesting imo. my worst fear in life is that i'm gonna look back and realize that i wasted it by being irrational. atm I have a pretty good idea of what i want to dedicate it for and i want to strive towards it. that's also why i bother posting these long posts.

so, the modern society's morals are based on the idea that the society should last as steadily and as long as possible, if not forever. but that idea is also questionable and based on uncertainity of the future, because why should we even bother keep living, what's the meaning of doing that? people created the idea of god as an attempt to bring an external meaning to life. (before I get any attacks from y'all conservatives telling me how "god was always there before anyone else", let me explain, this is not an anti-god post. i'm not an atheist, i acknowledge both the possibility of a god existing or not. also worth noting how an agnostic rejects the possibility of ever knowing does a higher substance exist or not.)
The monitor/screen you're literally looking at right now is literally just pixels. To you these pixels create words? Not exactly. You give those pixels meaning and without you observing and giving meaning to those pixels of your screen, they wouldn't matter at all.
A god is not an external idea that comes outside of our mind. If you had never heard the term "god" or what it stands for, you wouldn't know what it means. Of course, there originally had to be someone who came up with the concept of "god", but it was created from the inspiration received through observable information(either from observing god itself or observing the universe around us and being inspired by it, see karl popper's three worlds). With intellegence. In both cases, it is the individual who gave god the meaning(created the idea of what god is), in the individual's head.
God is dead.
@god-fandom, it doesn't mean god couldn't exist outside our minds. Berkeley for example said that a higher substance is necessary to guarantee that what we observe is the reality. Who created the laws of physics etc. That's just an example of how the possibility of a higher substance is still present, but it's still questionable like everything(outside your own existence).


MaestroUGC

#325
Quote from: Waddle Bro on November 14, 2015, 08:35:52 AMlike holocaust, people didn't question it and went along with it.
Quick interjection about this.

While it is true that most of the German people during Nazi rule were ok with the idea of separating Jews and other "undesirables" from the German population, for the most part none of the people and most of the military, and other government officials outside of the ones directly participating in the atrocities, had no idea what the extent of what Hitler was really doing. It wasn't until after the war that people saw what was really going on.

Yes, people did allow Hitler to come to power in the first place, but you also have to understand that most of his rise was through force, and then further maintained through misinformation and fear. He also slowly ramped up his hatred towards the Jews as time went on; he didn't just say "I think all the Jews should die", then was made Chancellor the next day. So please don't imply that over a million people were ok with mass murder, when the reality was that literally none of them knew.

You may continue with your existential ramblings.
Try to do everything; you're bound to succeed with at least one.

Waddle Bro

#326
Quote from: MaestroUGC on November 14, 2015, 08:50:41 AMQuick interjection about this.

While it is true that most of the German people during Nazi rule were ok with the idea of separating Jews and other "undesirables" from the German population, for the most part none of the people and most of the military, and other government officials outside of the ones directly participating in the atrocities, had no idea what the extent of what Hitler was really doing. It wasn't until after the war that people saw what was really going on.

Yes, people did allow Hitler to come to power in the first place, but you also have to understand that most of his rise was through force, and then further maintained through misinformation and fear. He also slowly ramped up his hatred towards the Jews as time went on; he didn't just say "I think all the Jews should die", then was made Chancellor the next day.
Yeah you're absolutely correct but that doesn't change my point!! The Nazis who still were aware of what was going on and didn't question it and went along with it. I wasn't trying to generalize the entire population as antisemitistic, just tried to show how all morals are questionable.
thanks for the clarification though!!

Quote from: Dude on November 14, 2015, 08:47:44 AMvid
fuck you man, my post wasn't anti-god or disrespecting towards beliefs, or at least that wasn't my intention at all. i even tried my best to point that out. :( it was to point out how we give meaning to everything, even to our beliefs.

Dude

Sorry, it just reminded me of that video

Honestly, I've only been skimming posts, lol.

MaestroUGC

Quote from: Waddle Bro on November 14, 2015, 09:00:13 AMYeah you're absolutely correct but that doesn't change my point!! The Nazis who still were aware of what was going on and didn't question it and went along with it. I wasn't trying to generalize the entire population as antisemitistic, just tried to show how all morals are questionable.
thanks for the clarification though!!
You'd be surprised how much of a motivator fear can be, a lot of those soldiers could've been shot for not following orders. Besides, following orders is a big deal in the military; not exactly a great place for fostering freedom of expression as it defeats the purpose of a chain of command.

@Dude
If you're not going to actively participate in the discussion, please refrain from posting at all as you're just stirring up conflict.
Try to do everything; you're bound to succeed with at least one.

KefkaticFanatic




me irl
[close]