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Author Topic: My new idea  (Read 430 times)

WaluigiTime64

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2018, 09:15:43 AM »

Ok so reading through this... "thread" I can see where some of the problems lie.

For starters, if you want to start arranging, you don't just ask people for what to arrange. You just arrange what you want to. Think about what things you'd like to have sheet music of, or would like to analyse by transcribing yourself. Transcribing and arranging for sheet music purposes is a very high effort activity, and a tedious skill to train. Unless you're an extremely persistent and determined person, picking pieces to transcribe because "they're easy to transcribe" isn't necessarily the best way to start.

Also demanding that the piece be one with a sheet already on the site is just silly. It's restricting, and you won't really be able to reap as many benefits from it. If you need to check notes, that's what NSM as a community is for. You don't need to check it by a sheet that's already on the site (which is odd that you ask for that anyway, because that sheet would've gone through the NSM community's feedback to get there in the first place). We as a community work together to improve each other's transcribing and arranging abilities.
Of course, beginning arranging for the purpose of removing a bad sheet from the site is a different matter entirely, but currently I don't believe you are pursuing that either.

Honestly, if you want to train your ear at transcribing, just do it. It doesn't matter how bad you are at the start, as long as you keep doing it and continually improve. I'll tell you now: you will likely not receive mountains of feedback in the Piano Arrangements board. That's fine, because with just a little bit of your own critical analysis and the practice itself, you'll improve, and it'll become more clear to you as you keep doing it.
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Olimar12345

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2018, 01:09:23 PM »

Olimar and SlowPokémon, does that really matter?

Uh...yes, it does. Saying “it’s not the point” is silly, because it is the entire point of this thread, apparently. Your initial post didn’t adequately say what you were asking. I was simply asking for clarification, no need to get up in arms over it, especially when you were able to clarify by only changing/adding a couple words.

Anyway, Waluigi is right. You’ll have a greater intrinsic motivation if you do something that interests you. You could always post it somewhere (like here or discord) and ask for feedback when you’re done.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 01:10:57 PM by Olimar12345 »
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ShyYoshiGuy

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2018, 06:26:32 PM »

Please delete this topic. Read the OP if you're curious.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 09:20:30 PM by ShyYoshiGuy »
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Dudeman

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2018, 06:39:14 PM »

I'm afraid you're really the one restricting yourself, here. If you want to start arranging, pick a song and give it a shot. The "benefits" Waluigi is referring to are being able to increase your musical knowledge and arranging skills. That's ultimately what you want to improve, right? There's no substitute for your own work, no matter how wrong you feel like it will be the first time around. You don't need an existing arrangement to dictate the correctness of your own work. Seriously, just ask for some feedback after arranging something and people will be sure to give it a look. I don't really understand why you're so resistant to just...starting. Your first arrangement won't be perfect; nobody's is. Setting up this system so that your first arrangement is perfect will only do more harm than good.

Please, seriously, pick a song you like from a franchise you like and just...go for it. It doesn't need to be "perfect" for you to be proud of it.
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Altissimo

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2018, 08:12:21 PM »

I can see how the first one you responded to was rude, but it was more of angrily mentioning what the other people said to me. But the second one you responded to wasn't rude, or at least I didn't try to be rude.

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Ok... which that video games interest me can I make an arrangement for? Mario, nah, you got that covered. How about that one Pokémon game you played years ago, nah, that's covered too. How about that obscure game that literally nobody talks about ever that is your favorite game, nah, barely any of the tracks are online and the entire track consists of very complicated, very long songs.
This is being a dick. You are basically shutting down and refusing to listen to other people because you have already decided that they are wrong and you are right and they're being assholes for not understanding why you're making the very specific, very bizarre, requests that you are.

Who cares if something's "covered"?? If you want to test your skills go ahead and try to make an arrangement of it! You're the one who says that you want a song that's on site AND obscure, if it's on site why does it also need to be obscure for you to use it? What's stopping you from using a Pokémon or Mario song if this is just what you say it is - practice? But instead of acknowledging that you just go "Well then what am I supposed to do, HUH olimar?" and make a very whiny response.

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If no one looks at it, I'd have to continually ask for someone to look at it over and over until eventually someone does. I don't want to be put in that position. On Discord, it gets buried. On the forums, it becomes unnoticed with the occasional "This song sounds like another song from a completely different game."
This is being a dick. You are discounting all of the hard work that updaters and everyone else put into reviewing sheets, and the community collaboration that goes into it, by saying that NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO WITH IT it'll get buried. In my experience here, new arrangers are often the ones whose non-subs get looked at most often, precisely because they're new arrangers and thus are likeliest to need some help, over those who have been here months or years. I stopped updating my arrangement thread because even when I was asking for help no one would give it - and I suspect this was because I had already arranged dozens of good sheets and there just wasn't any reason for people to think I needed a lot of help on my stuff anymore. But I was definitely getting quite a bit of feedback and assistance with my first few posts in that thread.

If you went on Discord or posted a topic that nicely and politely said something like "Hey, I just tried arranging (x) track from (x) game. I'm having a bit of trouble with it though. The rhythm in mm. 2-5 sounds funky to me, and I'm not sure if I transcribed it right, and I can't even hear the bass in mm. 8-10. Does anyone have any suggestions?" I'm sure some people would be willing to help. But you have to both be polite and make people want to help you, and specific about the sheet - saying "I don't know if any of it's right" means that the person helping has a much bigger task on their hands. (This isn't a dig at you, this sentence about being too general, it's a trap many new/young arrangers fall into.)

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The "community" doesn't even agree about what works. You guys had a super long argument about what someone should do. You might remember. Someone had a question similar to "I am new to arranging and I was wondering if I should take music theory classes or if I should just start." Someone said, "you should play an instrument". Someone else said, "just do it". Someone else said, "you should learn music theory".
This is being a dick. If you are accusing the entire community of some blanket problem that you feel is bad, the entire community is going to take offense to it. Don't do that.

You know why people are seemingly contradicting each other? Because different things work for different people - as you yourself have indicated multiple times in THIS THREAD.
For one person, playing an instrument might have been what helped them understand how to hear music in a transcribing-friendly way. For others, it might have been music theory. The "community" doesn't need to agree about what works and what doesn't. Music in general is far from an exact science. No one got us all together and said "hey, we're gonna be a community of arrangers but we all have to work the exact same way or it's never going to work out".

And that's why no one can tell you the exact way that you need to approach arranging, which is why we can't all agree on what kinds of pieces to recommend you. You need to listen to some on your own and figure out what's easier and what's harder. I have a hard time with chords. It's easier for me to pick out individual pitches and moving lines, so I prefer arranging GB(A) games. That's just me.

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I'm about done with this. I'm done arguing after this post. This post wasn't supposed to be arguing central. Unless you suggest a better OP or suggest a song, I'm not responding.
Why do you think people are going to help you if you don't want to engage with them? That's also being a dick. I don't care if you don't respond. I'm trying to help you by showing you how your words can come across as extremely insensitive and how you're about the poster boy for r/ChoosingBeggars right now.

If you can more politely tell us what exactly you are looking for and why you have the requirements you have - because to a lot of people it seems unnecessarily restrictive and requires them to go further out of their way to find material for you, which is not something people like to do; we don't all exist solely to help others who petulantly refuse to help themselves - and have a neutral (which is what you want!!!) discussion about this, I'm sure plenty of people would be glad to help. I can think of a few tracks that meet your obscurity AND on-site requirements and I can think of some that might be simplistic for beginners. But at the moment I'm not too keen on sharing when it's very possible I'll post it and you'll say "Thanks a lot, NOT!!! It doesn't meet (x) and (y) and (z) requirements. Get a better song." or something like that, because help from anyone should never be thrown back in their face.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 09:09:46 PM by Altissimo »
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Libera

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2018, 08:35:41 PM »

If no one looks at it, I'd have to continually ask for someone to look at it over and over until eventually someone does. I don't want to be put in that position. On Discord, it gets buried. On the forums, it becomes unnoticed with the occasional "This song sounds like another song from a completely different game."

As someone who only recently started arranging here, I've found that the community here has been massively helpful with regards to critiquing and offering advice to me on my sheets.  The idea that literally anything you do will be unnoticed/ignored is just not true.  I think you'll find that if you try to arrange something and then ask for help when/if you get stuck you'll find that people are far more likely to help.  Also: you've even had a few people in this thread offering advice, you've just been refusing to take it. 

You seem to like Game and Watch Gallery so here's a suggestion from me: why don't you pick a piece from Game and Watch Gallery and give transcribing it a go?  Then if you get stuck, say something in the submissions/feedback channel discord or start a thread in the piano arrangements thread (I've got nearly all of my feedback in my piano arrangements thread.)  I know you said you find it hard, but that's going to be the case with probably every piece (that's not surprising since you're only just starting) so you might as well pick something that you enjoy.  Why is that?  Because then once you finish it you'll be far more pleased with yourself that you've arranged something that you actually like, rather than some random piece that you picked because it was 'easy' in some way.  (Also, you're going to be listening to it a lot while you're transcribing it so it might as well be something you like to listen to!)
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AmpharosAndy

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2018, 09:09:10 PM »

Unless you suggest a better OP or suggest a song, I'm not responding.
that's a nice ultimatum you're offering to the people you're asking help from



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Bubbles

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2018, 08:06:27 PM »

all semi-demands and bad blood aside...let me promote myself

If you don't know what to arrange, look through the requests board and get inspired!! All the songs there are ones that people want, so you know you'll have at least one fan of your finished arrangement. If you find the song too difficult or lose interest, no one is making you finish it, so you don't have to stress about perfecting or even completing an arrangement (but maybe just don't post in the thread that you've started it unless you're sure you're going to finish it, don't wanna get anyone's hopes up). I have a whole folder of unfinished arrangements lol no one knows so no one cares! Plus, the best part of fulfilling a request is I get to fancily format it and move it out of our very long list of wants, so actually you'll have a guaranteed TWO people thanking you!!

I'm ass at arranging so I totally get where your frustrations are coming from. As awful as I am now tho, I'm still a LOT better than when I originally started. But I only learned more by actually physically arranging; asking for help and having more experienced arrangers explain a theory or something so I could recognize it by myself next time. Levi's recommendation of 3 track songs is a really good one, since the less voices present the easier it'll be to single out and recognize them.

You don't have to be familiar with the piece or franchise, and imo don't even have to like the song you're arranging. If your goal is improving your basic skills, you'll be motivated to arrange the most boring-ass pieces if you actively recognize the changes and progress you're making. Then, when you're a little more comfortable, you can tackle pieces you find more fun!

Looking back at my first attempts at arranging, I had a lot of questions and a lot of subsequent threads for them lol. Some quick basics imo that I found were recognizing chords and their notes and my favorite, notating correct rhythm groupings (which was nonsense to me at first but once explained well made SO much sense and was very gratifying)
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ShyYoshiGuy

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2018, 09:21:22 PM »

Mods, please delete this topic. I'm only going to draw more attention to this. I can't stand this topic.
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braix

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Re: My new idea
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2018, 10:21:37 PM »

For future reference, if you don't want to draw more attention to a thread, stop posting in it. And if you can't stand it, don't look at it. Really not that hard.

Locking this thread now.
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