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NinSheetMusic => Help! => Topic started by: Deku Trombonist on March 24, 2013, 11:27:01 PM

Title: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on March 24, 2013, 11:27:01 PM
Post here if you want help working out what key or time signature is used in an arrangement you're working on  ;)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on March 25, 2013, 04:42:27 AM
I don't know if I should post this here, but I use this (http://www.widisoft.com/english/download.html) to figure out the key signature of a song.

It's a mp3 to midi converter, but the conversion is horrible, so it's useless for picking up notes. However, it does tell you what key signature it's in (I don't know how accurate it is, considering I don't have perfect pitch.)

Oh, and the free trial only lasts 30 days, but it still has enough features after the free trial to be able to use it for key signatures.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on March 26, 2013, 01:45:31 PM
My technique is to just match what I hear as the tonic pitch. (The base note of the scale/key)
It doesn't take nearly as long as running the whole thing through a program, and it's always 100% accurate.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 26, 2013, 03:35:36 PM
You basically just need something pitched, like any instrument, or transcribing program like Finale.
Then: you just guess, until you get the right tonic.
You should be able to hear if it is in major or minor, and ta-da - you have the key signature!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on March 26, 2013, 10:38:43 PM
You basically just need something pitched, like any instrument, or transcribing program like Finale.
Then: you just guess, until you get the right tonic.
With practice it comes quicker.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 26, 2013, 10:44:07 PM
sorry, what do you mean?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on March 26, 2013, 11:00:25 PM
It wasn't anything important. I was just commenting on how when you practice enough, you can pick out the tonic note quicker because you will already almost if not already know what it is.
Your "guesses" become more and more accurate.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 26, 2013, 11:06:03 PM
Well, you wouldn't really get a right guess if you got a wrong guess (duh), so what you what you are saying is obviously true, but if you have something pitched, guessing the tonic wouldn't really take too long anyways though :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on March 27, 2013, 02:37:22 AM
That sounds a lot easier, however, I don't know if I trust my ear enough.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on March 27, 2013, 02:53:30 AM
Hmmm that's interesting. I always worked out the key of the song after I transcribed at least a position of the song.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Brassman388 on March 27, 2013, 04:58:33 AM
It wasn't anything important. I was just commenting on how when you practice enough, you can pick out the tonic note quicker because you will already almost if not already know what it is.
Your "guesses" become more and more accurate.

Pretty soon, they don't become guesses. You eventually get good enough where you can literally hear key changes and modulations. It just takes time and a focused ear and I promise you, you will get there. You just got to keep it up.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 27, 2013, 10:36:01 AM
But brassman, we aren't talking about key changes and modulations.
We are talking about key signatures, and unless you have absolute pitch, you cannot hear those unless you guess your way to the right tonic.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on March 27, 2013, 03:47:48 PM
Even without recognizing pitches it is possible to hear the scale or mode a song can be in by hearing the pattern of half steps and whole steps. (I tend to relate modes and scale qualities with emotions. Go figure.)

And jompa, a similar technique can be obtained through practice called "relative pitch". Once you get that down, you won't even need the external reference(I'm usually fairly accurate down to the half-step)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 27, 2013, 03:51:52 PM
But you shouldn't count on it too much.
Absolute pitch is the only way to be sure.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on March 27, 2013, 04:22:26 PM
Shouldn't count on it? Nonsense! You should use it as much as you can! Trusting your instincts is an important part of being a musician. It's hard to describe, but you feel this sort of uneasy feeling in your gut when you're not 100% on pitch. Its like a sharp pain. (At least that's what it's like for me)

But we're getting off topic here. It's perfectly normal to use an outside reference, such as a piano, if you can't recognize pitch classes. However, it is a crutch that we as musicians should ween ourselves from. There won't always be a perfectly tuned reference at our disposal.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 27, 2013, 04:57:01 PM
When I say you shouldn't count on it too much, I mean that you can't be absolutely sure. You really can't.
But some people do have better relative pitch than others - there is some science that suggests it has to do with the childhood, and that something triggered your brain to train this ability at an early age.
Very few people have absolute pitch, and they don't even have to be musicians to have it.
Even your neighbor could have it.
Also: there is a very big gap between good relative pitch and absolute pitch, so either you have it, or you don't.

Olimar, you probably have very good relative pitch, and you are trying to train it as well, so that is very good for you.
I don't have any knowledge of whether I have a good or bad relative pitch, as I haven't tried to focus on mine yet, but if anything, I probably have a bad relative pitch.

You can never expect of someone to have good relative pitch!
And even though you have good relative pitch - as I said before - you aren't sure unless you have absolute pitch, which very few people have - therefore counting on your relative pitch too much isn't something to bet on.

Example: You are supposed to find the key by hearing the key in a song in A major. But a minute ago, you listened to a song that you don't know is in B major, and a minute before that you listened to a song that you know is in D major - it is possible this series of key changes can make your mind forget which tone is D etc., and that could mess up your decision. It is a fact that it is harder to remember a tone over a long period of time anyways, and when this is meddled with by songs in other key signatures - well, it is a very big chance of loosing the pitch.
^I don't actually know if this example could be true, but this is how I imagine it to work. At least with me, that is..

In conclusion:
The only way for someone with relative pitch to be sure, is to have something tuned.

Quote
Even without recognizing pitches it is possible to hear the scale or mode a song can be in by hearing the pattern of half steps and whole steps. (I tend to relate modes and scale qualities with emotions. Go figure.)
You are correct of course!, but scales and modes are something completely else.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Brassman388 on March 27, 2013, 08:14:50 PM
Even without recognizing pitches it is possible to hear the scale or mode a song can be in by hearing the pattern of half steps and whole steps. (I tend to relate modes and scale qualities with emotions. Go figure.)

Pretty much, man. If you can't see the wisdom in this, I believe there is no hope for you as an arranger, or musician for that matter.

Absolute pitch is a gift. Relative pitch is gained through hard work and constant practice.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on March 27, 2013, 08:35:43 PM
If I find the whole pitch thing exceedingly easy, does it even matter if I have perfect pitch? I don't know if I do. I don't understand what the big deal is about it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Brassman388 on March 27, 2013, 08:44:21 PM
Unless you're a musician that has Absolute pitch, it kinda just renders it useless. No, I don't think it matter's either, but that's because I found ways and methods to work without having Absolute Pitch.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 27, 2013, 11:18:36 PM
Even without recognizing pitches it is possible to hear the scale or mode a song can be in by hearing the pattern of half steps and whole steps. (I tend to relate modes and scale qualities with emotions. Go figure.)
Pretty much, man. If you can't see the wisdom in this, I believe there is no hope for you as an arranger, or musician for that matter.
But, that has nothing to do with relative or absolute pitch.
Someone without any pitch at all could hear that too.
but that's because I found ways and methods to work without having Absolute Pitch.
Also, I want to know; are you talking about methods of finding the key, or are you talking about methods to find scales and modes? Because it is not possible to know for sure what key a song is in  unless you have absolute pitch, and one wouldn't even need any pitch to find the scales and modes?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Brassman388 on March 27, 2013, 11:21:42 PM
Do you really care what we think, or are you just trying to prove us wrong? I'm honestly asking because I'm not going to waste my time explaining if you're just going to disagree with everything I say.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on March 28, 2013, 12:39:54 AM
And tension arises...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on March 28, 2013, 12:43:10 AM
jompa plz
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 28, 2013, 01:41:39 AM
Do you really care what we think, or are you just trying to prove us wrong? I'm honestly asking because I'm not going to waste my time explaining if you're just going to disagree with everything I say.
Are you saying I'm wrong?
Because I'm saying you are both wrong and off-topic.
No reason to get mad about it, but there is nothing wrong with me pointing that out.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on March 28, 2013, 01:52:17 AM
Jompa, would you kindly answer Brassman's question? Your answer will determine my next post in this topic.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on March 28, 2013, 02:15:11 AM
Because I'm saying you are both wrong and off-topic.
No, you're all off topic.

Any more posts on this stupid, childish debate will be deleted.


Post here if you want help working out what key or time signature is used in an arrangement you're working on  ;)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on March 29, 2013, 12:41:10 AM
What time sig/key is this song in?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 29, 2013, 01:02:19 AM
Lets take the trumpet theme in the beginning as a starting point. As the rest song is built around it, it is safe to use that as a starting point.
We can hear that it is the mode "eolian" - which basically is minor. Something to note is that songs in eolian mode usually focus a lot on a sharpened seventh, which this song does! Therefore we can conclude that it is in harmonic minor, but that's not really important unless you want to get deep into it. The only thing that is important so far; is to hear that it is in minor.
I basically did all the work here, but you are supposed to be able to find out something like this on your own. If you son't feel like you are able to hear wether or not a song is in major or minor, or some specific mode, then there is only one thing that helps, and that is practice!

So we could hear that it was in minor!
But, somthing we can't hear; is the pitch.
Therefore we open finale/walk over to our piano and find the right pitch for the key signature, which turns out to be A.

So as a conclusion this song is in A minor. Easy as pie.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Clanker37 on April 03, 2013, 02:09:55 PM
Huh. You guys all have intricate methods of finding the key. I just arrange some of it and go, "Oh look all the F's, C's and G's are sharpened. It must be A major."

I never knew it could get so complicated  :o
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on April 03, 2013, 03:19:19 PM
I just arrange some of it and go, "Oh look all the F's, C's and G's are sharpened. It must be A major."
But then it could be F# minor right? Or it could be a different mode. Maybe E major but no Ds were played in the arranged section.
There is a technique to this.

So as a conclusion this song is in A minor. Easy as pie.
A minor harmonic you mean.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ricky on April 03, 2013, 05:43:51 PM
We can hear that it is the mode "eolian" - which basically is minor. Something to note is that songs in eolian mode usually focus a lot on a sharpened seventh, which this song does!
It's called aeolian but either way aeolian mode itself doesn't include the sharpened seventh. The more general minor scale in which aeolian or natural minor is often freely interchanged with harmonic minor or melodic minor does. Ofc, a piece in an aoelian key (note: not minor scale) can include chromaticism but not necesarily the sharp 6th or sharp 7th kind.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 03, 2013, 07:15:01 PM
A minor harmonic you mean.
That's right, but harmonic minor isn't a mode, so I didn't want to use that word when I was already talking about modes and stuff - harmonic minor is minor, so saying it's aeolian isn't wrong, but it is very unprecise - however I didn't wanna make it more complicated, I mean when writing for harmonic minor you just use the aeolian mode anyway, and add the loose accidental for sharpened seventh.
It's called aeolian but either way aeolian mode itself doesn't include the sharpened seventh. The more general minor scale in which aeolian or natural minor is often freely interchanged with harmonic minor or melodic minor does. Ofc, a piece in an aoelian key (note: not minor scale) can include chromaticism but not necesarily the sharp 6th or sharp 7th kind.
I know, I know - it doesn't include a sharpened seventh, but that doesn't expel them - as I said above, I was talking about modes anyways, so suddenly calling it harmonic minor would be complicating things.
Besides, I didn't listen to much of the clip, I just rushed through the start, so if I were to say it was in harmonic minor - but later, the song uses normal sevenths - I would have been wrong.
There are a bunch of sharpened fourths here too, but that doesn't make it hungarian minor because they don't necessarily happen every time.
I never knew it could get so complicated  :o
Well, this is more or less the easy part of arranging, in my book.
But then it could be F# minor right? Or it could be a different mode. Maybe E major but no Ds were played in the arranged section.
There is a technique to this.
Yeah, the only technique is to use something pitched to find the tonic - which you should be able to hear in your head while listening to the song.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ricky on April 04, 2013, 07:20:30 AM
Well, a scale equals a mode in my opinion. Ofc we have the church modes or western modes (however you would like to call them) which specifically are Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian. But harmonic minor for example is also a mode imo. And yes I guess you can sort modes into minor or major. Aeolian, dorian, phrygian and the many modifications such as harmonic minor are typically sorted into the minor category.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Clanker37 on April 04, 2013, 10:51:14 AM
But then it could be F# minor right? Or it could be a different mode. Maybe E major but no Ds were played in the arranged section.
Well, I also match the chords. Like if the F,C  and G's were sharpened, but it was to a minor chord in the first bar, I would auto-assume F# minor. However, this has tricked me when ever I get a ii-V-I variation or something. Basically I pick out major or minor before I start arranging.
Well, this is more or less the easy part of arranging, in my book.
Yeah, I find it extremely easy as well using my method, but I just haven't covered many of the modes in my learning yet, so when you guys go all Lydian and Aeolian I'm like ._.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ricky on April 04, 2013, 12:10:56 PM
Well, I also match the chords. Like if the F,C  and G's were sharpened, but it was to a minor chord in the first bar, I would auto-assume F# minor. However, this has tricked me when ever I get a ii-V-I variation or something. Basically I pick out major or minor before I start arranging.Yeah, I find it extremely easy as well using my method, but I just haven't covered many of the modes in my learning yet, so when you guys go all Lydian and Aeolian I'm like ._.
Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl8lSHLHDcA
and you will know at least some about the lydian and aeolian amongst other modes.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 04, 2013, 02:52:35 PM
Well, I also match the chords. Like if the F,C  and G's were sharpened, but it was to a minor chord in the first bar, I would auto-assume F# minor. However, this has tricked me when ever I get a ii-V-I variation or something. Basically I pick out major or minor before I start arranging.
This way, you don't need to actually arrange the chords before you find out the key - and there is the danger of a song being in a weird mode, so if you don't hear out the tonic first, you risk putting the wrong key signature if you don't pay attention.
All you need to find is the tonic - that's all - the one tonic note of the song - and after that you go on to modes, and the actual arranging.
Quote
Yeah, I find it extremely easy as well using my method, but I just haven't covered many of the modes in my learning yet, so when you guys go all Lydian and Aeolian I'm like ._.
They are very easy to learn - both to hear and the theory. :) I understood them completely the same day I chose to research them.
Well, a scale equals a mode in my opinion. Ofc we have the church modes or western modes (however you would like to call them) which specifically are Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian. But harmonic minor for example is also a mode imo. And yes I guess you can sort modes into minor or major. Aeolian, dorian, phrygian and the many modifications such as harmonic minor are typically sorted into the minor category.
Well - you can name a scale after a mode - like saying "Oh, when I improvised just now I only played a mixolydian scale descending" or something like that.
But saying they are the same thing isn't correct.
And when I am talking about modes - I think I mean the church modes (I am really sorry if I have referred to them wrong, but I'm not english speaking, so when it comes to translating terms, I might be a bit off). I mean the Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian, not including scales like minor blues, japanese pentatonic etc.
If by just "mode" you include harmonic minor, melodic minor and so on with all types of scales: Well, we don't really have a term for that in Norwegian (we just say that the song is in X), so I probably said something wrong - As I said, I have meant church modes all along, so that's why.
Warning, me playing smart-ass: Locrian also counts as minor  ::)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on April 04, 2013, 04:20:59 PM
Harmonic and melodic minors are not modes in and of themselves. They're more like exceptions to the rules that are commonly used and accepted because they sound good/cool/neat.
Aeolian mode is the minor mode. Natural minor, only the natural minor, and nothing but the natural minor.
Locrian also counts as minor.
Because it is the relative minor of the dominant, yes.

Harmonic/melodic minors are not their own modes, but only variations to the aeolian mode.

I'm hoping to revive my Music Theory Q/A topic and once I finish the next "all you need to know on basic key signatures", I'll put one up on modes.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ricky on April 04, 2013, 05:22:49 PM
Well, actually Locrian mode can be referred to as a diminished mode but ofc it has more minor characteristics than major ones. So it can be counted as minor. Alright, if we count only the church modes as modes then indeed these are the only (western) modes. I guess the rest of the scales can be sorted into other groups like for example pentatonic.

I recommend a book called "Modal Music Composition" by Stephen M. Cormier whether you are into composition and such or just want to learn some new music theory. He gives a new approach (as in non-medieval or reneissance) to how modes can be used today not just as minor (no pun intended) details in certain compositions but for complete compositions and compete with the major/minor system. Lots of things such as characteristics, progressions, stability, modulation, cadences, chromaticism etc. are described. He suggests three scalar dyad alternatives to the major/minor system: Ionian/Aeolian, Mixolydian/Phrygian and Lydian/Dorian.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on April 04, 2013, 05:28:37 PM
Well, actually Locrian mode can be referred to as a diminished mode...
You're right, but I meant the locrian can be harmonicized/melodicized similar to a minor key because the chord is the relative minor of the dominant.
My fault for not explaining that.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 04, 2013, 05:50:59 PM
Funny how everyone's contaminated by my smart-ass virus after that locrian comment :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on April 04, 2013, 07:40:48 PM
Funny how everyone's contaminated by my smart-ass virus after that locrian comment :P
That's what happens when you get a group of perfectionists and a vague statement.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on April 08, 2013, 08:40:47 AM
I'm arranging this, but I don't want to end up having the wrong key/time sig.

So can someone please find it out for me.

BTW, learing how to arrange entire songs by ear, so I shouldn't have to use this topic after a while.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 08, 2013, 01:38:42 PM
It is in C major with Lydian traits.
Time signature is 2/4 - but if you feel like it you could instead use 4/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on April 09, 2013, 12:19:46 AM
I get how you can figure out a key signature by ear (it's pretty easy) but how do you do time signatures. I'm horrible at counting, so I end up going 4/4 and if something is weird about it, I change it to something that makes more sense (and even then, it's probably in the wrong time signature.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bubbles on April 09, 2013, 12:42:03 AM
o_o youre joking right. I cant figure out a key signature without basically doing the entire song first, while time signatures are easy XD

I'm probably not the best person to give advice but I'll do it anyway :P

Normally I listen to the lower notes in the song (or maybe just the background notes). 3/4 timing would be strong-weak-weak for the three beats in each measure, while 4/4 timing would be strong-weak-medium-weak. those are the only two i know When i listen to the song I just tap that out and if it fits, it fits
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on April 09, 2013, 12:44:33 AM
Bubbles is right, time sigs are definitely the easiest part.  There are only a couple songs that I've had trouble with, but now I can hear 7/8.  Be sure to pm me if you have trouble, Fire.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on April 09, 2013, 02:24:31 AM
I think key signatures and time signatures are equally easy.

As far as time signatures go:

2/4 is when the phrases are short, etc. (i.e. "Ground Theme" from New Super Mario Bros. Wii)
4/4 is normal, 4 beats per measures music (i.e. "Ground Theme" from Super Mario Bros.)
3/4 is used when the piece is a waltz of some sort, or as Bubbles put it, strong-weak-weak (with the accent on every third note) (i.e. "Underwater Theme" from Super Mario Bros.)

Now for the alternatives to swing tempos:
6/8 is basically 3/4 with the accents on every three EIGHTH notes. Used often for marches and the like (i.e. "Title Screen" from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team and Red Rescue Team)
12/8 is basically 6/8 doubled because the phrases are longer (i.e. "The Great Don Paolo" from Professor Layton and the Curious Village, "Team Skull" from Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time and Explorers of Darkness)
9/8 is basically 6/8 but used as more of a waltz, with repeating phrases of three dotted quarter notes which are in turn made up of three eighth notes (i.e. "Sootopolis City" from Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire)

Hope that helps.

Edit: Oh and then you have the random ones in 5/8 or 7/8 (I believe "Eterna Forest" from Pokemon Diamond and Pearl is in 5/8 and I can't think of any video game song in 7/8 atm)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bubbles on April 09, 2013, 02:37:46 AM
I think I remember someone saying the Title Theme of OOT was in 7/8? Only the first few measures or something
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on April 09, 2013, 02:38:36 AM
No. That one's in 4/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on April 09, 2013, 02:54:26 AM
I think I remember someone saying the Title Theme of OOT was in 7/8? Only the first few measures or something

Oh, that'd be the staff roll.  :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on April 09, 2013, 02:58:34 AM
THAT'S THE ONE I WAS TRYING TO REMEMBER
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on April 09, 2013, 03:34:09 AM
Oh wow, thanks guys! I guess I'll use this thread what it's meant for...

What time signature is this song in? Currently, I have the intro at 4/4 and the rest at 12/8 (when the 8th notes come in.) 6/8 would probably make more sense, but then I need to tie a note over a measure, which doesn't feel right to me.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on April 09, 2013, 04:40:04 AM
@fire: that whole song is in 4/4

@Slow: I'm going to have to disagree with you on your time signatures regarding the eight in the denominator.

6/8 is more closely related to 2/4, as they both have two strong beats. 6/8 would be counted:
ONE - two - three - FOUR - five - six, and 2/4 would be counted: ONE - and - TWO - and.

12/8 is like 4/4 if triplets got the beat, plus they're both conducted the same way.

9/8 in most cases gets the 12/8 treatment, and is conducted like 3/4 with triplets.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 09, 2013, 07:05:54 AM
How can time signatures be hard, everyone knows how to count right?

The /8 time signatures are basically indicating that there is three eights per beat.
In 6/8 there are two beats - so it works like a 2/4 with tuplet eights.
In 12/8 there are four beats - so it works like a 4/4 with tuplet eights.
In 9/8 there are three beats - so it works like a 3/4 with tuplet eights.

A lot of people suck at reading these time sigs, so I usually assign a "swing"-expression to the /4 time sigs instead, for readability reasons.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on April 09, 2013, 12:32:56 PM
@fire: that whole song is in 4/4

@Slow: I'm going to have to disagree with you on your time signatures regarding the eight in the denominator.

6/8 is more closely related to 2/4, as they both have two strong beats. 6/8 would be counted:
ONE - two - three - FOUR - five - six, and 2/4 would be counted: ONE - and - TWO - and.

12/8 is like 4/4 if triplets got the beat, plus they're both conducted the same way.

9/8 in most cases gets the 12/8 treatment, and is conducted like 3/4 with triplets.

How is this different from what I said?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 09, 2013, 02:13:44 PM
Well, Slow, your explanation wouldn't have gotten any points if you wrote it in my teacher's tests:

You more or less said that:
6/8 is like 3/4, but that the third eight in every measure is stressed.
And that in 12/8 is like 6/4 with the eights stressed the same way.
And the same with 9/8

I don't think that is an explanation many people would understand(?), as you now are implying that there are 3, 4 (and 1,5) beats per measure in these time signatures. That is not true.
There are three quarters, but not three beats - because - the beats aren't quarters anymore, they're dotted quarters.
The /8 time signatures are basically indicating that there is three eights per beat.
In 6/8 there are two beats - so it works like a 2/4 with tuplet eights.
In 12/8 there are four beats - so it works like a 4/4 with tuplet eights.
In 9/8 there are three beats - so it works like a 3/4 with tuplet eights.

I know that you already know this Slow, so I'm not trying to play smart-ass over you, but I think this is what Olimar meant.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Brassman388 on April 09, 2013, 03:17:21 PM
I think Slow was more going for how the meter was divided rather than the actual feel of where the beats fell.

For example: the explanation of the relationship between 6/8 and 3/4. They both contain 6 eighth notes, it's just the beat on 6/8 falls on every 3 eighth notes, where as with 3/4, it falls on every 2 eighth notes.

The only one I didn't understand was the last one explaining the 9/8.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on April 09, 2013, 05:55:52 PM
The /8 time signatures are basically indicating that there is three eights per beat.

That's not true. Sure, that may fit a few situations, but anything/8 simply indicates that the 8th note gets the beat. How they're grouped is determined based on the relationship of strong-to-weak beats, as determined by the composer. For example: 7/8 can't be put in groups of three's, simply because seven isn't divisible by three. Another interesting example is 9/8. Though it may seem "Standard" to group 9/8 as three sets of three eighth notes, it isn't set in stone that you have to. I have seen pieces where 9/8 was interpreted as 2+3+2+2. (Though, I myself would write it as 5/8+2/4).

How can time signatures be hard, everyone knows how to count right?

Be careful how you word this. Remember, this isn't the "Show off you're knowledge of theory" topic, it's the "Help those who don't fully understand it yet" topic.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on April 09, 2013, 07:59:08 PM
How can time signatures be hard, everyone knows how to count right?

The /8 time signatures are basically indicating that there is three eights per beat.
In 6/8 there are two beats - so it works like a 2/4 with tuplet eights.
In 12/8 there are four beats - so it works like a 4/4 with tuplet eights.
In 9/8 there are three beats - so it works like a 3/4 with tuplet eights.

The problem is I'm REALLY bad at counting (music wise.) I've always had trouble sight reading becuase I mess up the timing of notes, and my biggest obstacle in arranging by ear is figuring out note durations. I know, it's pathetic.

Your explanation for the time signatures really made something click in my head thouh. I don't know why I didn't see that before, but it makes sense to me now. Now I just need to practice.  :P

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 09, 2013, 09:36:52 PM
Be careful how you word this. Remember, this isn't the "Show off you're knowledge of theory" topic, it's the "Help those who don't fully understand it yet" topic.
So when I say "I can count" you look at that like showing off? There is a reason why I compared it to counting - because it is basically counting.
That's not true. Sure, that may fit a few situations, but anything/8 simply indicates that the 8th note gets the beat.
well, no, that wouldn't make sense - because then there would in 9/8 be 9 beats where the eights are the beats, or I am I misunderstanding this sentence?
But I think the reason you say this is because you are thinking about the irregular time sigs as well - just read further:

Quote
How they're grouped is determined based on the relationship of strong-to-weak beats, as determined by the composer. For example: 7/8 can't be put in groups of three's, simply because seven isn't divisible by three. Another interesting example is 9/8. Though it may seem "Standard" to group 9/8 as three sets of three eighth notes, it isn't set in stone that you have to. I have seen pieces where 9/8 was interpreted as 2+3+2+2. (Though, I myself would write it as 5/8+2/4).
That is actually irrelevant, believe it or not.
All time signatures can be grouped under either "basic time signatures" or "irregular time signatures" <-- those are the Norwegian music theory terms, they probably aren't too different from whatever you would call them.
All /8 and /4 time signatures are under "basic time signatures". No time signature can be both irregular and basic.
7/8 doesn't count as one of the /8 time signatures - it is under "irregular time signatures", and in the cases where 9/8 is used as an irrelevant time signature, like 2+3+2+2, it doesn't count as a /8 time sig either, but like 7/8; an irregular one.
I mean you could even make 4/4 an irregular time signature if you want, like 1+2+1 or something silly like that - but then it wouldn't count as a basic time signature anymore, hence it can't be grouped under the /4 time signatures.

The /8 time signatures only include 6/8, 12/8 and 9/8 (and 3/8 and 15/8) when not used irregularly.
Anything else falls under irregular time signatures, and you don't count those in with these basic time signatures.

So as I said, a /8 time signature (which means that it is one of the basic time signatures, and not an irregular one) indicates that there are three eights per beat.


The problem is I'm REALLY bad at counting (music wise.) I've always had trouble sight reading becuase I mess up the timing of notes, and my biggest obstacle in arranging by ear is figuring out note durations. I know, it's pathetic.

Your explanation for the time signatures really made something click in my head thouh. I don't know why I didn't see that before, but it makes sense to me now. Now I just need to practice.  :P
What I found out to really help, is to study some examples - find some pieces, perhaps at this site like I did, that basically are in these rather hard time signatures (or even the rather easy ones - if you need that too), and just experiment with them, and try to understand "why is that eight there?", "what happens if the third eight isn't there", etc.
I remember I learned a lot about the /8 time signatures after Dahans made his "Dewford Town" (http://www.ninsheetm.us/sheets/Pokemon/PokemonRubySapphire/DewfordTown.pdf) arrangement from "Pokémon Ruby, Sapphire & Emerald". Actually, I think that is what triggered me to start learning about the /8 signatures!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Brassman388 on April 10, 2013, 09:44:20 PM
The problem is I'm REALLY bad at counting (music wise.) I've always had trouble sight reading becuase I mess up the timing of notes, and my biggest obstacle in arranging by ear is figuring out note durations. I know, it's pathetic.

Your explanation for the time signatures really made something click in my head thouh. I don't know why I didn't see that before, but it makes sense to me now. Now I just need to practice.  :P

Bud, it's not pathetic. Just a bit of practice a day will help you solve this problem. If you have windows media player, then you should try slowing it down to hear where each beat falls. That's what I used to do when I couldn't determine where to place the beat.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on April 10, 2013, 09:51:08 PM
^Another good training method I used to do before I even got serious about music is just identify the time signature of something randomly on the radio.

To this day I can't go to a symphony without checking the time signature every 2 minutes. :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on April 10, 2013, 10:02:16 PM
Bud, it's not pathetic. Just a bit of practice a day will help you solve this problem. If you have windows media player, then you should try slowing it down to hear where each beat falls. That's what I used to do when I couldn't determine where to place the beat.

I do slow down the song, but when I count, I'm unable to place the note (my brain can't multitask while counting music...) I'll keep trying though. I'll listen to midi's from the site, try to figure out the time signature, then check to see if I'm right.

Thanks a ton! I really appreciate the help!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 10, 2013, 10:06:31 PM
^Another good training method I used to do before I even got serious about music is just identify the time signature of something randomly on the radio.

To this day I can't go to a symphony without checking the time signature every 2 minutes. :P
^I think that would be the best way!
Just counting along, or beat-boxing to any song you hear :) I think that helps making you comfortable with where the beats are.
I remember I did that a lot, about a year ago, when I started arranging.
Practicing with beat-boxing will especially make transposing and composing for drums and percussion a lot more comfortable, reliable and just better quality-wise.

It's like learning to improvise - you start off with scatting first, so you understand how to make an idea come to life in the shape of music.

Ninja'd
I'll listen to midi's from the site, try to figure out the time signature, then check to see if I'm right.
Yes, do that!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on April 10, 2013, 10:13:16 PM
Video game music is quite helpful for learning these types of things.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ricky on April 11, 2013, 05:36:14 AM
Well, I'm not that good at figuring out time signatures so could ask for a little help.


Is that in 3/4? Well, the way I'm thinking is that the guitar part goes like 1&2&3&, 1&2&3& and so on. If that's the case then the drum heard at least at the start seems to go slightly later than the the "and" after 3 or is possibly played at the "and".
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on April 11, 2013, 05:48:12 AM
The song appears to be in some sort of derivative of 3/4. The way the drum is playing, I'd put it in 6/8.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 11, 2013, 06:38:21 AM
I can't use YouTube right now, but all you have to do is couting the beats.
If there are three beats then it is in 3/4! If there are two beats with tuplet eights, then it is in 6/8.
I see you are discussing how the drum and the guitar makes you think it is in 6/8, but how the syncopations are accentuated has nothing to do with time signature, if that is what you are talking about.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Brassman388 on April 11, 2013, 06:40:27 AM
Well, I'm not that good at figuring out time signatures so could ask for a little help.
Is that in 3/4? Well, the way I'm thinking is that the guitar part goes like 1&2&3&, 1&2&3& and so on. If that's the case then the drum heard at least at the start seems to go slightly later than the the "and" after 3 or is possibly played at the "and".

3/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on April 12, 2013, 03:17:57 AM
The song appears to be in some sort of derivative of 3/4. The way the drum is playing, I'd put it in 6/8.

How 'bout both? 9/8! :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on April 12, 2013, 03:24:56 AM
^Unfortunately, 9/8 wouldn't work well here XD

I would go for 3/4 myself.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ricky on April 12, 2013, 05:19:41 AM
Then 3/4 it probably is. Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on May 04, 2013, 01:21:13 AM
Ok, so... this song has been giving me troubles forever:


I originally though it was 4/4, then settled on 6/8. Now, hoever, after practicing a bit, it feels like the intro is 6/8 and the chorus is 4/4.

The song part of the song sounds 4/4?

3rd part is a repeat.

No idea about the 4th part, haven't looked at it.

So, am I on the right track or completely off?

Oh, and just to get this out of the way now:


Lol, I have abosultely no idea what this is.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on May 04, 2013, 01:55:19 AM
Phenac City is in 4/4, with the harp notes being eighth note tuplets.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on May 04, 2013, 02:04:16 AM
Phenac City is in 4/4, with the harp notes being eighth note tuplets.

Oh, thanks! I had it in 6/8 with tuplet eight notes (don't ask me how that works.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 04, 2013, 09:34:08 AM
Phenac City is in 4/4, with the harp notes being eighth note tuplets.
This is right, but FireArrow, you could actually use 6/8 for this - actually I would prefer either that, or 12/8.
And the "song part" is definitely in 4/4.

Outer Space is in 12/8.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ricky on May 04, 2013, 11:26:12 AM
4/4 with triplets, 6/8 and 12/8 are far from the same even if they can sound quite similar. With 4/4 you have four quarter note beats and the pattern goes (S=Strong, M=Medium, w=weak): SwMw. When it's 6/8 you have 6 eight note beats and the pattern is: SwwMww. When it's 12/8 it's 12 eight note beats. It's something like SwwMwwMwwMww. That is at least if I have understood it right. I blame it on Lypur (Andrew Furmanczyk) otherwise. But either way it all depends on the context and 4/4 with triplets can be seen as equal to 12/8 sometimes.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 04, 2013, 11:39:57 AM
They all work fine.
It's just that when the harp constantly moves in tuplets, it's gonna look a whole lot more elegant in 12/8 (the beat pattern is the same as with 4/4, just with the tuplet eights).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on May 04, 2013, 01:11:51 PM
They all work fine.
It's just that when the harp constantly moves in tuplets, it's gonna look a whole lot more elegant in 12/8 (the beat pattern is the same as with 4/4, just with the tuplet eights).

This is also fine. I think 4/4 with tuplets could look just as good,. You could even begin in 6/8 and then switch the time signature later (though I don't recommend this, it might look awkward).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on May 04, 2013, 09:05:49 PM
Hmm, I'll try both and just see which one looks better. Thanks a ton guys!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: spitllama on May 08, 2013, 08:41:01 PM
This should be really easy to recognize, but for some reason it isn't. I could have sworn it's 12/8, but the right hand comes in and screws everything up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCZkeg7a6Wg
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 08, 2013, 08:48:07 PM
That should be notated in 4/4, with the left hand part (or rythm part, or whatever you call that in english) just being notated in 8th tuplets.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: spitllama on May 08, 2013, 08:52:32 PM
Even though the right hand comes in on the fourth beat?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 08, 2013, 09:13:44 PM
Well, I don't think it does. I think the right hand part starts at the second beat of measure#1.
^But even if that is just me, and it really does start on the fourth beat, then it would still be in 4/4 with tuplet eights in the left hand, just that a time change probably would do:P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 08, 2013, 09:59:00 PM
Here, I worked it out:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/research%20lab.mus
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: spitllama on May 08, 2013, 10:43:46 PM
Lol here is my sad attempt currently

(http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa326/spitllama1/PianoSnip_zpsb9b39442.png) (http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/spitllama1/media/PianoSnip_zpsb9b39442.png.html)

You did a sort of pick-up, which makes more sense. I'm going to have to sacrifice one of those voices for 2 hands.



Thank you Jompa.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 08, 2013, 11:17:06 PM
No problem!
It was kinda didicult ro hear where the beat was, but when I understood that the tuplets went A-B-E instead of E-A-B, it made sense.

I believe "Eterna Forest" from Pokemon Diamond and Pearl is in 5/8
^I know this is old, but I kinda reacted to this:P
Eterna Forest is just in 4/4, not any fancy stuff there. I think you just got the beat wrong, like I first did:)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on May 18, 2013, 12:51:15 PM
Does this song have a time signature change?

EDIT: Nevermind it's all in 4/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 18, 2013, 02:21:04 PM
yep :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on May 31, 2013, 08:45:32 PM
Key signature please.

EDIT: Never mind. It's in C minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 31, 2013, 09:08:27 PM
It is in C minor for about four measures...
This is a song that modulates like crazy, so one key signature isn't enough.

Here:
It starts off in Eb minor.
At 0:14 it goes into F minor.
At 0:23 it goes into G minor.
At 0:41 it goes into C minor.
At 0:46 it goes into F minor.
It repeats at 1:10 back to where it changed into F minor at 0:14.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on May 31, 2013, 09:11:53 PM
It is in C minor for about four measures...
This is a song that modulates like crazy, so one key signature isn't enough.

Here:
It starts off in Eb minor.
At 0:14 it goes into F minor.
At 0:23 it goes into G minor.
At 0:41 it goes into C minor.
At 0:46 it goes into F minor.
It repeats at 1:10 back to where it changed into F minor at 0:14.
Just came to that same conclusion and I was gonna post here with that but you beat me to it. :P Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: sunnydelight18 on June 11, 2013, 09:06:37 PM
Can somebody tell me what time signature this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IV-lqEv1do&list=PLNUOnQCufDjpnCmUYMtviR_5hOirlZ0qM&index=15) is in?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on June 11, 2013, 09:26:16 PM
4/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on June 11, 2013, 09:33:13 PM
It just lands on the off beat a lot. Don't let it throw you off.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: sunnydelight18 on June 11, 2013, 09:54:39 PM
That's what I thought, I just wasn't quite sure. Thanks. (:
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on June 18, 2013, 05:34:43 AM

I think it's in A minor, but I've never had so much trouble figuring out notes before. Is in a different mode? The scale doesn't sound very minor.

Oh, and just to double check, it's in 6/8 not 12/8?

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on June 18, 2013, 07:00:17 AM
It's A minor. Which of the two time signatures doesn't really matter, but I'd go with 12/8.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on June 18, 2013, 07:03:23 AM
It's A minor. Which of the two time signatures doesn't really matter, but I'd go with 12/8.

Oh, OK. Thanks!

Oh, and the stupid C# was throwing me off, it makes sense now.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on June 19, 2013, 07:12:29 AM
Key/Time sig?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on June 19, 2013, 07:22:55 AM
2/4 - F Major

Someone double check me.

EDIT: 4/4, it would probably be better to notate the L.H. as quarter notes?
Double edit: Derp - 4/4 left hand is eighth notes, you don't need a new measure for every chord. :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on June 19, 2013, 07:44:13 AM
FireArrow is right - 4/4 F major
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: spitllama on June 26, 2013, 09:42:30 PM
Would you guys justify the use of 8/4 time signature for a bass line that uses 16 eighth notes for each phrase? They go in a 3+3+3+3+4 fashion (4 groups of 3 eighth notes and 1 group of 4 eighth notes).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on June 26, 2013, 10:22:33 PM
That shouldn't affect the time signature, though?

If the song itself is in 8/4 (the beats are quarters and there are eight of them per measure) then of course.
But if the song is in 3+3+3+3+4 -> that the beats of the song are at these specific times (And I am not talking about where the bass line is "stressed" - I mean where the beats of the song are.) -> then the song is in that time signature (9/16+4/16 or something like that), and not in 8/4. That goes for the bass and all other instruments of course.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nebbles on June 27, 2013, 04:38:10 AM
How about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1EPegIzD2M) song?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on June 27, 2013, 06:49:33 AM
2/4

No idea on the key signature.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: spitllama on June 27, 2013, 11:48:31 PM
Thank you Jompa
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on June 29, 2013, 10:41:59 AM

Key/Speed/Time Sig?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on June 29, 2013, 12:30:42 PM
For tempo just use a metronome.
It is in minor with loads of raised sevenths - you can find the pitch with finale or a piano.
Time signature is 4/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on July 09, 2013, 10:06:13 AM
4/4? Bb Major?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 09, 2013, 10:17:31 AM
Unless my recorder is out of pitch, it's in E minor.
As for time signature: I would put 3/4, but a lot of people would use 6/8. So just choose:)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 09, 2013, 04:28:20 PM
6/8 makes more sense to me, but Jompa knows what he's talking about. Anyways, that's a really beautiful song, can't wait to see it finished!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on July 09, 2013, 04:42:47 PM
I'd say definitely 3/4 time, not 6/8, and it is E minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 09, 2013, 05:16:24 PM
I'd say definitely 3/4 time, not 6/8, and it is E minor.

Definitely? I can see how it's in 3/4 in the beginning, but does it switch to 6/8 at 0:13 or something? (I know it doesn't, I'd just like to know why.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on July 09, 2013, 05:55:03 PM
You could theoretically put it in 6/8, but it's a very fast waltz tempo, not a slower 6/8 deal. See how it goes 1-2-3 1-2-3? It's very fast, but it is indeed waltz tempo, which is usually 3/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Clanker37 on July 09, 2013, 06:14:58 PM
I completely disagree, Slow. I think it's 6/8, since I hear 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 and the beats are definitely on  1 and 3. Although I guess it comes down to personal taste and since I detest fast waltzes... Of course, you could just put it in 6/4 or 12/8 just to shit us all :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: spitllama on July 09, 2013, 06:46:32 PM
Bah I hate using this thread. But lately it feels like any arranging skills I had before are slowly degrading...

I honestly think this is D minor (I've got the time sig)

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 09, 2013, 08:01:54 PM
You could theoretically put it in 6/8, but it's a very fast waltz tempo, not a slower 6/8 deal. See how it goes 1-2-3 1-2-3? It's very fast, but it is indeed waltz tempo, which is usually 3/4.

Yes, but I hear it as triplets, so wouldn't that makes it /8?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 09, 2013, 11:03:40 PM
I completely disagree, Slow. I think it's 6/8, since I hear 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 and the beats are definitely on  1 and 3. Although I guess it comes down to personal taste and since I detest fast waltzes... Of course, you could just put it in 6/4 or 12/8 just to shit us all :P
You know, if the beats are at 1 and 3 then it's not 6/8. 6/8 is when the beats are at 1 and 4, but that's probably what you meant.
Actually though, I think you misunderstood Slow and me: you see, we treated your eights as quarters, making half a measure of your 6/8 a measure of 3/4 to us. And that really shouldn't cause trouble with the arrangement, neither is it wrong. Which is why I said one could just choose (you'd have to double the note durations in 3/4 though. I probably should have said that..).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on July 10, 2013, 12:22:43 AM
oh god have i started another flame war
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 10, 2013, 01:01:30 AM
It's not really a flame war.  :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MaestroUGC on July 10, 2013, 01:04:29 AM
Musicians just take their meters very seriously.
Title: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: spitllama on July 10, 2013, 04:19:11 AM
Anyone have time to check Darknut?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Clanker37 on July 10, 2013, 06:10:12 AM
You know, if the beats are at 1 and 3 then it's not 6/8. 6/8 is when the beats are at 1 and 4, but that's probably what you meant.
Yeah, lol. I suck at maths.
Actually though, I think you misunderstood Slow and me: you see, we treated your eights as quarters, making half a measure of your 6/8 a measure of 3/4 to us. And that really shouldn't cause trouble with the arrangement, neither is it wrong. Which is why I said one could just choose (you'd have to double the note durations in 3/4 though. I probably should have said that..).
I know that! I was just expressing my opinion that 6/8 is better than 3/4 for this song. Neither are wrong, but I would arrange it in 6/8. It's just a personal preference.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 10, 2013, 08:12:19 AM
Not really a flame war, Yugi..

Anyone have time to check Darknut?
I tried doing it on the beach of Italy with an out of pitch recorder, and I believe you are right.
Title: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: spitllama on July 10, 2013, 08:13:13 AM
xD thanks much
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on July 15, 2013, 10:42:24 PM
I agree with Slow and Jompa, that's 3/4.  And E minor.

And Spit, the song is so bizarre and chromatic I'd barely even say minor, but its root is D.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 16, 2013, 12:03:25 AM
And Spit, the song is so bizarre and chromatic I'd barely even say minor, but its root is D.
That's not really true.. :/ it is D minor
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on July 16, 2013, 04:48:53 AM
Actually, listening to it again it's D minor XD sorry
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on July 16, 2013, 10:34:38 AM
Can anyone tell me what the key signature of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPA-zffuD2c) is? It's giving me an unusual amount of trouble...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 16, 2013, 10:38:18 AM
It's in B
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on August 09, 2013, 11:14:36 AM
Key/Time Sig?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 09, 2013, 11:42:42 AM
C minor 4/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on September 23, 2013, 01:55:16 AM
You know the drill.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on September 23, 2013, 02:52:58 AM
Starts off in A minor, 12/8 (or 6/8 I guess, if you really want)

EDIT: there are a lot of time signature changes in here, so I'll provide an outline.
Double time at 20 seconds in.
Switches to 6/4 at 38 seconds
Switches back to 12/8 at 1:13
Switches to a fast 3/4 at 1:30
Switches to 12/8 at 1:43
Switches to 4/4 at 2:25
Switches to 12/8 at 2:38

There's probably a short transition or two that I left out, but that's the jist of it.
I'm too lazy to look at key modulations, though :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 23, 2013, 03:23:05 PM
I'd do as FierceDeity says, but I would use 6/8 instead of 12/8 in the beginning, because if you listen to it, I think it's pretty obvious that the stress on the beats indicates that each measure only has two beats -> 6/8.

And for the Dark Pit Theme part (where FierceDeity said to use 4/4), I'd recommend using 2/2 (cut time) (with underlying eights), or 2/4 (with underlying sixteenths) - for the same reasons as above actually - there are only two beats per measure anyhow you look at it, so using 4/4 (both with underlying sixteenths, and underlying eights in a fast tempo) is kinda like using 16/4 or 64/4 - they all go up in four, but the first beats are on every second beat, meaning 2/2 or 2/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on September 23, 2013, 06:11:10 PM
I agree with the cut time, actually. I was thinking about that before, but for some reason decided against it.
As for the beginning, are you sure? There may only be two beats stressed, but they're beats 1 and 3 (if, you know, a beat is a dotted quarter) of a 12/8 bar. In the main melody, for example, the C and B leading down to the A would be the 5th and 6th eighth notes of the bar, and then the 11th and 12th. Either way, if it's in 6/8, it's still in 2-bar groupings. I don't have too much of a preference for either one, just saying that 12/8 is reasonable.

EDIT: Oh wait, are you thinking of it as half the speed that I'm thinking of it as? Because I'm saying 12/8 at like dotted quarter note = 142 or so.
I feel like that speed makes more sense, because while 6/8 at half tempo technically works, it feels a little weird to use sixteenth notes as the base rhythm in compound time, not to mention you're gonna run into some weird duple stuff.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 23, 2013, 08:07:39 PM
Oh wait, are you thinking of it as half the speed that I'm thinking of it as? Because I'm saying 12/8 at like dotted quarter note = 142 or so.
No, I mean, it should be the same speed, but the measures aren't four beats long, they're two beats long. That's what I'm saying. 6/8 at 142 bpm.
It isn't only because of the stressed beats thing (because this is not as strict),
but mainly because the musical phrasing in this case is 6/8 - there's definitely no doubt about that - in contrast to the later pieces in this medley that use 12/8.
I'd go as far as saying that 12/8 is wrong in this case (that's just me though) - it will definitely be inelegant.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on September 23, 2013, 08:15:29 PM
Ah, ok. Yeah, that makes sense.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Shaletome on September 26, 2013, 09:19:14 PM
I'm not sure if this is time signature, but for the song, "Minor Circuit," (http://dl1.ffshrine.org/soundtracks/dl/1809/755115/Super%20Punch-Out!!%20Original%20Game%20Rip/12_-_minor_circuit_bout.mp3) from Super Punch Out, I am not sure where beat 1 is and or if it changes. Here is what I have made so far: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nzjxae2njapxu0s/Minor%20Circuit-Incomplete.pdf
I thought it was an 8th note followed by 6 16th notes starting the first (full) measure, but as I listened, around measures 8 and 9, I got really confused and pulled everything back a sixteenth note, but again going through it, that didn't sound right either. If you can tell where each beat is, help would be greatly appreciated.
     Thanks, Shaletome
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 26, 2013, 09:45:37 PM
It's in 4/4 yes, but the entire arrangement is one sixteenth ahead of what it should be, so just adjust everything according to that
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Shaletome on September 26, 2013, 10:21:33 PM
You mean that it should be https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf4pyy966tswey1/Minor%20Circuit%3E-Incomplete.pdf like I had before I put it back a beat and the snare drum backbeat is on the fourth 16th note in every beat? You think the drums just play a normal beat one 16th note off?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 26, 2013, 10:49:18 PM
You shouldn't think of it as "a sixteenth off". The song is like that, so nothing is really off with it. The snare notes are just placed on syncopations.
The snare drum doesn't really affect the time signature anyway, and vice versa. I mean, why would they even? What matters is the pulse! You could say it's the feeling of the beats. If the snare notes don't follow the beats exactly, then that's their own thing, it is not the pulse that is wrong. Rule: If it doesn't affect the feeling, then it doesn't affect the time sig.
Nothing wrong with having the snare drum on whatever piece of the measure, really - and it's not even that un-normal for it to be on whatever syncopation.
Yes, that last version is the right one.

I want to suggest that you double all note values, and double the speed (could be solved with alla breve) - the way you have it now, you kinda have all measures split into two - idk how to explain that very well, but it has to do with phrasing - it'd be better if the measures were halved basically, and the best way to do that is to double the note values (rather than changing it into 4/8 or 2/4 (which could also be done btw, if you wan't to save yourself a lot of work)).
Now it's like you have two "intended" measures in one of your measures.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 22, 2013, 02:38:42 AM
I know it is 4/4 up to 0:19 then what??
Here is what I think. It is 4/4 upt 0:19, then 3/4 for a couple bars, then 5/4 for one bar, then I cant figure it out from there on out
PLEASE correct me if I am wrong
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on October 22, 2013, 03:07:36 AM
Psst, MLF, you forgot something ;)


Unlike the last one you were asking about, this one can actually just be all in 4/4. The accent pattern "1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4" is a totally acceptable syncopation in 4/4, especially when it starts itself back up again on beat 1 of the next measure like it does here. That's actually a rhythmic motif in this piece. At the beginning, it follows the form of "dotted quarter note, dotted quarter note, quarter note"; in the section you're concerned with, it's the same thing, just with double the note lengths, i.e. "dotted half note, dotted half note, half note".
Lemme know if you need more explanation as to why, but yeah, it's all in 4/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 23, 2013, 06:25:02 PM
I knew I forgot something :)
Thank you very much.
I think I understand what you are saying
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on October 28, 2013, 07:33:41 AM
Glad I could help :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on December 31, 2013, 08:32:56 PM
I need this question answered ASAP: How do you know when to put a sharp or a flat?
I am working on Overthere Stair and Fort Francis from Super Paper Mario and they have an evil amount of accidentals. I am always being asked to change from flat to sharp or sharp to flat in a lot of my songs. So, I would like to learn how to do that...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on December 31, 2013, 09:02:36 PM
I think I'm finally capable of answering that. :)

1. Look at the harmony and analyze the chord (use an F# instead of a Gb if it's a D chord.)
2. Look at the motion of the melody. If it's going upward, use sharps, if it's moving downward, use flats.
3. If all else fails, just make it easier to read.

If you post a mus I could give you more specific help.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 01, 2014, 08:21:06 PM
Thank You very much Firearrow :) If I need help, Ill pm you


What key is this song in (I think I know, I just want to make sure)?


Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 01, 2014, 08:39:34 PM
Before I, or someone else, tells you what it is, let me ask you:
mlf, do you know the simple method of finding the key signature? Because if you just learn it you won't ever have to ask again.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 02, 2014, 12:06:38 AM
well...um.....no
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on January 02, 2014, 12:25:20 AM
Tell us :D :D :D
I can't remember it...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on January 02, 2014, 12:32:47 AM
iirc, there's two. One is to listen until you hear a note that sounds like the tonic, and then figure that out (thus finding your key.) Some random trick I found on youtube is to just hum a random note while listening to the song, and supposedly, it'll always be the tonic, dominant, and sometimes the mediant.

Personally, I just figure the song out on a piano until the key signature becomes apparent, that way I've already got a head start when I open up finale.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 02, 2014, 12:42:36 AM
The "tonic" is that ONE tone that is the tonal center of any song.
When listening to a song, and therefore using it as reference, anyone can find the tonal center of the song without any trouble at all - this isn't even music theory. All you have to do is to hear that one tone that it all lands on (hard to explain but you should get what I mean really).
so you've found the note; after that you have to use a pitched instrument, like a piano or a saxophone or Finale for that matter and basically "compare" to a pitched note, so you can find out what the note that you found to be the tonic is. It's like algebra where you only have twelve possibilitys, making it easy to try and fail untill you get it right.
And there you have the tonic.
Wether it is minor or major is also something to listen for, but that's not hard either, just requires a slightly experienced ear.
So if you know the tonic and the tonal "gender" (minor or major), you just connect those two together and you have the key signature right there.
It's easier than it sounds - as I tried to get into; it's barely even music theory at this point - it's better described as just natural.
One is to listen until you hear a note that sounds like the tonic, and then figure that out (thus finding your key.)
^Exactly right method.

now try it, mlf!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 02, 2014, 02:01:08 AM
ok....I guess
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on January 02, 2014, 08:43:59 AM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1aoq7hby7y64cj2/18.%20I%27ll%20Face%20Myself.mp3

Key/Time Sig
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on January 02, 2014, 02:24:09 PM
No, there's actually like a way to look at the key and figure out what it's in...  I just can't remember.  It's something like for flats take the second to last flat in the signature and for sharps the second or something...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on January 02, 2014, 04:00:34 PM
Haha, I'm pretty sure that's like, a level or two (or three or four) before what we're talking about here. You're talking about how to determine the key based on the number of flats out sharps in the key signature, which,  in this setting, would mean you already know everything about the key except for the explicit letter name, which, at that point, is kind of irrelevant. However, if you do want to know those two rules (or, at least, the two I'm familiar with) for determining the letter name of the key signature based on the number of sharps or flats, here they are (for major keys).

Flats: The tonic (first note of the major scale) is the second to last flatted note in the key signature (order of flats = Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb,  or the circle of fourths starting on Bb). So I guess you could also define the letter name as "a perfect fifth above the last flatted note in the key signature".

Sharps: The tonic is a half step above the last sharped note in the key signature (order of sharps: F#, C#, G#, D#, A#, E#, B#). In other words, the last sharp in the key is the seventh scale degree, or leading tone, of the scale.


As for being able to determine the key signature, I feel like at a certain level (or maybe not, I never actually started transcribing until I'd already had a decent amount of theory knowledge and ear training, so I've always kinda done this), it doesn't have to be so abstract as "hum what you think is the tonic" (although, still kinda abstract). The first thing I do when I listen to a piece is I determine what the intervals in the melody are. Then, I see how those intervals conform to a major or minor scale (i.e. where are the half steps, how are the chord tones (1, 3, 5) emphasized, and whatnot). From there, I determine the tonic, and then I already have the intervals figured out, so  once I check that note with a reference pitch, I already have the intervals sorted out, and at least the beginning of the melody/whatever line I'm working on is already finished.

...Okay, after typing that out, that sounds overly complicated. But it works for me, haha.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 02, 2014, 04:44:58 PM
The first thing I do when I listen to a piece is I determine what the intervals in the melody are. Then, I see how those intervals conform to a major or minor scale (i.e. where are the half steps, how are the chord tones (1, 3, 5) emphasized, and whatnot). From there, I determine the tonic, and then I already have the intervals figured out, so  once I check that note with a reference pitch, I already have the intervals sorted out, and at least the beginning of the melody/whatever line I'm working on is already finished.
But essentially, this isn't much different from whatever you were saying was too abstract.
You are definitely making it somewhat more complicated - humming the tonic is much easier than what is expected. You don't need music theory, or a very good ear to do it.

And the only thing you're doing different there seems to be to "postpone" finding the key until you have all the intervals down, but either way when arranging it's the intervals that we're listening to, right? So by finding the tonic first, which is extremely easy without reading too much into the chord notes (yes, it really is A LOT easier than it sounds), it's easier to arrange as you now have a starting point for the intervals.

A great thing about what you're saying though, is that many people aren't as comfortable with intervals in each and every key, so it's good to kinda be able to think out of lets say C major, before having to note it all down in lets say Ab major.
But doing what you're doing is great, because that way you can (more) easily play that song in any key and on any instrument and on any occasion, as long as you can hum the melody in your head.
Music wouldn't be any fun unless you could do just that!

------------
So anyways, MLF & Yugi, what's keeping ya? Those songs have extremely definable tonics - here we have provided the recipe which explains you how to find this kinda stuff in less than a minute. Musicians should know how to do this.

And learn the "circle of fifths" Nocturneofshadow! It's an important thing to know.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 02, 2014, 08:14:44 PM

C Minor??
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: insaneintherain on January 02, 2014, 08:46:25 PM
Listen for a resolution / cadence. If the resolution feels "strong", it's most likely resolving to the home key.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on January 02, 2014, 08:52:36 PM
Haha, I'm pretty sure that's like, a level or two (or three or four) before what we're talking about here. You're talking about how to determine the key based on the number of flats out sharps in the key signature, which,  in this setting, would mean you already know everything about the key except for the explicit letter name, which, at that point, is kind of irrelevant. However, if you do want to know those two rules (or, at least, the two I'm familiar with) for determining the letter name of the key signature based on the number of sharps or flats, here they are (for major keys).

Flats: The tonic (first note of the major scale) is the second to last flatted note in the key signature (order of flats = Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb,  or the circle of fourths starting on Bb). So I guess you could also define the letter name as "a perfect fifth above the last flatted note in the key signature".

Sharps: The tonic is a half step above the last sharped note in the key signature (order of sharps: F#, C#, G#, D#, A#, E#, B#). In other words, the last sharp in the key is the seventh scale degree, or leading tone, of the scale.


As for being able to determine the key signature, I feel like at a certain level (or maybe not, I never actually started transcribing until I'd already had a decent amount of theory knowledge and ear training, so I've always kinda done this), it doesn't have to be so abstract as "hum what you think is the tonic" (although, still kinda abstract). The first thing I do when I listen to a piece is I determine what the intervals in the melody are. Then, I see how those intervals conform to a major or minor scale (i.e. where are the half steps, how are the chord tones (1, 3, 5) emphasized, and whatnot). From there, I determine the tonic, and then I already have the intervals figured out, so  once I check that note with a reference pitch, I already have the intervals sorted out, and at least the beginning of the melody/whatever line I'm working on is already finished.

...Okay, after typing that out, that sounds overly complicated. But it works for me, haha.

Yeah this is what I meant!  You don't have to play through anything just look at the signature and you know.

Jompa what makes you think I don't know circle of 5ths?  I don't quite understand where you're coming from with that...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on January 02, 2014, 09:00:28 PM
C Minor??

Yes.

@Nocturne, we're talking about finding the key signature of a song with your only reference being listening to it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 02, 2014, 09:11:34 PM
Good :)
Hopefully I wont have to ask again :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on January 02, 2014, 10:29:27 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1aoq7hby7y64cj2/18.%20I%27ll%20Face%20Myself.mp3

Key/Time Sig
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 02, 2014, 11:29:17 PM
Yeah this is what I meant!  You don't have to play through anything just look at the signature and you know.

Jompa what makes you think I don't know circle of 5ths?  I don't quite understand where you're coming from with that...
But we don't know the signature... We aren't talking about how to identify the tonic out of looking at the key, we are talking about finding it through listening.
And you obviously don't know the circle of fifths as you said you didn't "remember" how to identify the tonic out of the signature..
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on January 02, 2014, 11:48:35 PM

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 03, 2014, 12:18:15 AM
It's the parallell key to the one mlf asked about.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on January 03, 2014, 12:22:13 AM
So Eb Major?

Also, what would the time signature be?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 03, 2014, 12:27:19 AM
Actually, C minor is better to say, as that's what the whole piece starts in kinda, but it's the same thing really.
Time signature is just 4/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on January 03, 2014, 02:53:42 AM
But we don't know the signature... We aren't talking about how to identify the tonic out of looking at the key, we are talking about finding it through listening.
And you obviously don't know the circle of fifths as you said you didn't "remember" how to identify the tonic out of the signature..
What I meant was the second to last flat thing.  The pneumonic device for the circle of fifths isn't hard to remember :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 03, 2014, 07:48:46 PM
At 0:22, does it change to 4/4 and then change back to 3/4 at 0:28??


this song:
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: insaneintherain on January 03, 2014, 08:58:43 PM
At 0:22, does it change to 4/4 and then change back to 3/4 at 0:28??


this song:

Yep.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 03, 2014, 10:07:38 PM
thats what I thought and thanks :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 15, 2014, 07:08:29 PM
The time sig. is kinda tricky (stupid  ::)) in this song

9/8?? 4/4??

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Clanker37 on January 15, 2014, 08:01:02 PM
9/8
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 15, 2014, 08:22:53 PM
Thats what I thought :)
This will be an interesting song to arrange.


Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 15, 2014, 10:39:20 PM
you shouldn't use 9/8 here. It's not wrong, but it makes it overly complicated for an extremely simple song. Do it in 3/4 with swing instead!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 15, 2014, 10:41:04 PM
Holy...
Too late...
Im almost done
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on January 16, 2014, 12:24:20 AM
Idk, I don't think it's in bad judgement to do 9/8 here. There are a lot of triplet figures that couldn't just be written as swung eighth notes. As long as it's notated correctly, it really shouldn't be any more difficult to read.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 16, 2014, 12:25:21 AM
Well...check it out. Its on my page :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on January 16, 2014, 12:55:01 AM
Just messaged you with my feedback, haha
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 16, 2014, 01:05:48 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 16, 2014, 02:27:12 AM
I wanna make sure BEFORE I start it
4/4...12/8? What would you do?

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on January 16, 2014, 02:37:34 AM
I'd probably go with 4/4 for this one. It's a lot more swing-based than it is triplet-based (if that makes sense), in comparison to the last one.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 16, 2014, 02:41:59 AM
Ok :) (sorry for bothering everyone with all these questions)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on January 16, 2014, 02:43:30 AM
No problem haha, that's what this thread is for :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on January 16, 2014, 04:08:10 AM
Okay sorry for disagreeing  ;) but I definitely feel a triplet pulse in there.  :/
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 16, 2014, 04:33:32 AM
Sorry for the offense but I think Fierce would know way more than you. Mor arrangments and all
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on January 16, 2014, 04:40:26 AM
Sorry for the offense but I think Fierce would know way more than you. Mor arrangments and all
Again, (no offense to you FD), quantity =/= quality.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on January 16, 2014, 05:31:30 AM
None taken, haha. While I like to think I've improved a lot through my time arranging here at NSM (and my first semester studying music at college :P) there are still many people on here who are more experienced than I am, and I still have a lot to learn. Besides, this is more of a subjective disagreement, anyways, as either time signature could technically work. (Still, thanks for backing me up, MLF :P)

Okay sorry for disagreeing  ;) but I definitely feel a triplet pulse in there.  :/

I mean, there is, but it's not nearly as strong, seeing as it isn't prevalent in a majority of the measures. The overriding feel, to me, seems to be swung eighth notes; the only triplet rhythms other than swung eighths seem to be in the percussion (which may or may not end up in the arrangement), and those are just plain triplets, put in amongst/stressing swung eighths, in instruments that imply a jazz feel. Again, it can easily work either way, but that's my take on it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on January 16, 2014, 08:46:47 AM
I was gonna post something but then I saw the paragraph above me which pretty much says everything. Swing is more of a stylistic thing related to jazz. Eg much of Banjo-Kazooie has what may be called swing rhythms but stylistically you wouldn't refer to it as swing. Just like the track above has a bit of a shuffle thing going so you wouldn't call it 12/8.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 17, 2014, 01:07:11 AM
Another question  ::)

How do you make finale play a trill a whole step down instead of a half step up??
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on January 17, 2014, 03:25:27 AM
Write the note that the trill is on as the lower note perhaps? Eg if you want a trill from B-A write the trill on the A, and if you want it to start on the B, put grace note just before.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 17, 2014, 03:40:04 AM
Its in this song at 0:03 and 0:04

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 17, 2014, 10:57:16 PM
Write the note that the trill is on as the lower note perhaps? Eg if you want a trill from B-A write the trill on the A, and if you want it to start on the B, put grace note just before.
Oh....Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 20, 2014, 01:11:40 AM
I need this answered as quick as possible: What is the key in this song?


Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on January 20, 2014, 01:46:26 AM
Just from listening to it with a reference pitch, I'd say it's probably C minor, assuming that the melody is "G, F# G Eb C G, F#"
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on January 20, 2014, 02:18:18 AM
Just from listening to it with a reference pitch, I'd say it's probably C minor, assuming that the melody is "G, F# G Eb C G, F#"

Jompa? :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on January 20, 2014, 03:48:07 AM
He's correct, it's in C Minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 20, 2014, 04:03:05 AM
Jompa? :P
I think FierceDeity is right 99.999999999999999999% of the time
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on January 20, 2014, 07:43:46 AM
(http://th08.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2011/288/7/7/oh__stop_it__you__by_rober_raik-d4cwd9f.png)
Curse you for making me use this image twice in one day, haha. And I mean, Jompa has definitely had to correct me on multiple occasions, so I wouldn't exactly say I'm infallible :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 20, 2014, 04:57:17 PM
ok then :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on January 20, 2014, 05:39:31 PM
"G, F# G Eb C G, F#"
JOMPA D:
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 20, 2014, 07:16:56 PM
At your service
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: sunnydelight18 on January 24, 2014, 04:06:17 AM

Time signature?

I was pretty sure this switches between 2 and 3 beats every measure, but when I started working on it, the 3 beat measure was too slow and I couldn't make the syncopation work in the 2 beat measure.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on January 24, 2014, 06:32:46 AM
6/8 with a bit of syncopation in the beginning. Take that with a grain of salt though.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Clanker37 on January 24, 2014, 07:03:55 AM
6/8 with a bit of syncopation in the beginning. Take that with a grain of salt though.
I got 6/8 too.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: sunnydelight18 on January 25, 2014, 05:32:21 AM
Thank you! I started with a pickup as well, is that incorrect?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on January 25, 2014, 05:52:16 AM
For that little blurp of a note at the beginning? Yeah, I think so.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 29, 2014, 12:39:51 AM
What is the timing in these songs?

4/4?


3/4?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on January 29, 2014, 12:47:02 AM
You're right!
5 A.M. - 4/4
6 A.M. - 3/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 29, 2014, 01:16:01 AM
Ok :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 01, 2014, 01:46:30 AM
I wanted to do "Rosalina in the Observatory" from Super Mario Galaxy but what version do I do. There is 3


I was thinking of 2....
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on February 01, 2014, 01:49:34 AM
2 sounds good. It's in 3/4 and in the key of A Major
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 01, 2014, 01:50:50 AM
Thanks but I already knew that :)

lol. You told me ahead time though   :)

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on February 01, 2014, 01:51:55 AM
Oh I'm sorry! I didn't mean to patronize you. I just figured since the name of the thread is "what key and time signature is this piece in" you needed to know.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on February 01, 2014, 02:05:02 AM
I just figured since the name of the thread is "what key and time signature is this piece in" you needed to know.

sometimes I wish this forum had Like buttons on posts, because I don't really have anything to add, but I was thinking the same thing :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on February 01, 2014, 02:08:06 AM
Haha yeah. I wasn't being sarcastic, I seriously thought he needed them since it was in this thread :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 01, 2014, 07:17:57 PM
Im not sure where to post a question that doesnt include key or time sig.....so Ill post it here. How do I make a parenthesis around a sharp or flat on a note.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 01, 2014, 07:30:59 PM
you press "p" when a note is highlighted, and it's accidental will become visible and parenthesized. If you press "p" again the accidental will remain visible, but not parenthesized. To make the accidental invisible again after this, you'll have to press "ctrl" "shift" "+", which is a bit stupid...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 01, 2014, 07:39:03 PM
Haha Ok :)
Im actually doing "Clouds over Flower Fields (Replacement)'' from Paper Mario.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 20, 2014, 03:53:33 AM
Key Signature?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on February 20, 2014, 04:09:23 AM
Ab major
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on February 20, 2014, 04:15:50 AM
I think it might be Eb major. :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on February 20, 2014, 04:25:44 AM
First note of melody: Ab
First offbeat: C and Eb
Ab C Eb = Ab major chord
C raises up a half step, Db is clearly in key signature
Q.E.D. the piece is in Ab major
...unless my tuner is wayyyy off lol nevermind I used finale playback for the starting pitch, so...unless finale playback is like a fifth off...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 20, 2014, 04:29:39 AM
Thanks :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on February 20, 2014, 04:49:24 AM
FierceDeity is right. The key is A-flat Major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 20, 2014, 06:39:55 PM
You noobs, it modulates: starts off in Ab - then Eb for a while - then back again on repeat.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on February 20, 2014, 08:23:04 PM
ugh but jompa you can't expect me to listen to more than 20 seconds of it, that's way too much work
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 20, 2014, 08:52:24 PM
yeah, true. I don't normally do that either. I just wanted to check out why zoroark said it was in Eb, which is kinda justified now that we know it modulates.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 27, 2014, 07:49:27 PM

C Minor?
And what bass would you use (link below), bar 3, 4, or 5?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nk6gztujv1grnu9/Dreamland.mus
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 27, 2014, 10:08:16 PM
Yes, it's C-minor.
And I would use the bar 3 figure but with the low bass notes an octave up.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 28, 2014, 12:51:29 AM
Yes, it's C-minor.
And I would use the bar 3 figure but with the low bass notes an octave up.
Ok :) That should be easier the player
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on March 05, 2014, 08:33:31 AM

I think you know the drill by now.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 05, 2014, 09:05:35 AM
Bb-minor and D-minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MindaWolf on March 06, 2014, 02:24:28 AM
Hey, guys!
Okay, So I've started working on The Legendary Hero (The Opening) Of Wind Waker. As you have guessed, I can't figure out the key signature. Will you guys help me please?
Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on March 06, 2014, 02:28:21 AM
Might wanna put up a youtube link, haha
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MindaWolf on March 06, 2014, 04:37:33 AM
I have an mp3 of it, but i can't figure out how to post that on here... wow, I must be tired :/
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on March 06, 2014, 05:18:24 AM
I have an mp3 of it, but i can't figure out how to post that on here... wow, I must be tired :/
www.youtube.com
"wind waker intro theme"
enter
click video
copy url
paste
Not a valid %s URL
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MindaWolf on March 06, 2014, 05:26:27 AM
http://www.tubeofmusic.com/?v=KvwNvKZbQZA

Just go there. My parents decided that I can't go on youtube anymore. Yay...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on March 06, 2014, 07:31:37 AM
4/4, A minor. (some parts feel a bit 2/4, but I don't feel like putting much thought into it.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on March 06, 2014, 03:14:33 PM
My parents decided that I can't go on youtube anymore. Yay...
Im not allowed to be on Ninsheetmusic  :-X
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MindaWolf on March 06, 2014, 11:53:02 PM
Im not allowed to be on Ninsheetmusic  :-X

I'm not allowed on a social sites because of my grades and emotional standing...

4/4, A minor. (some parts feel a bit 2/4, but I don't feel like putting much thought into it.)

Also, for the second measure, could you figure out that rhythm??? I can't figure out when that random note comes in before beat 2... unless it is beat 2.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MindaWolf on March 06, 2014, 11:58:34 PM
Just in case the other song was not correct, heres a website.

downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/legend-of-zelda-takt-of-wind-original-sound-tracks (http://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/legend-of-zelda-takt-of-wind-original-sound-tracks)

Download "The Legendary Hero" and voilá!

Once again, thanks guys!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on March 07, 2014, 12:03:56 AM
Second measure: half rest - eights rest - two tied eights - quarter? If doesn't work can I see your mus file?

Edit: Make sure you have the higher note in measure one on beat 3.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on March 07, 2014, 12:07:41 AM
99% finished. Just waiting on a key sig.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on March 07, 2014, 12:17:13 AM
A minor, the melody just revolves around e.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on March 07, 2014, 12:19:31 AM
Thanks :) Thats exactly what I thought.
I should have it up within the the hour
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on March 07, 2014, 10:33:27 PM
Just need a Key sig....
And which one of these (http://www.treblis.com/notation/rit.html) would go nicely with this song?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on March 08, 2014, 01:41:23 PM
C-minor
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on March 08, 2014, 11:35:57 PM
Thanks :)

And for....
And which one of these (http://www.treblis.com/notation/rit.html) would go nicely with this song?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on March 12, 2014, 04:34:10 PM
My recommendation: none. You don't always need an expressive marking, and none of them seem to fit anyways. I can't even describe it in English forget Italian.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: McDucky on March 19, 2014, 11:58:57 AM
Need a time sig for this.   
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bloop on March 19, 2014, 02:17:50 PM
Seems pretty much 6/8
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on April 06, 2014, 09:32:40 PM
G Minor??
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 06, 2014, 09:44:23 PM
C minor, but it does some crazy stuff in the middle so watch out
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on April 06, 2014, 09:56:05 PM
Ok thanks :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 18, 2014, 05:28:15 PM
I think this is in the key of A major (if not, than minor), but there are a lot of accidentals. But what key is it in. I think it might be 4/4, but it does some wierd stuff.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 18, 2014, 06:19:15 PM
It starts out in A-minor, but around 00:50 it modulates into C-minor, and then of course back to A-minor on repeat at 01:50. Nothing wrong with some accidentals here and there.
The time signature in that weird section of the song changes every measure and alternates between 7/8 and 8/8 (4/4) - if you want to you can just use 15/8 - I'd probably do that.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 18, 2014, 06:43:58 PM
Noooooooooooooooooooo! Finale notepad doesn't do 15/8.  >:( I guess I'll choose a different song then....
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 18, 2014, 07:17:25 PM
nonono, you can ask someone to do it for you. Shouldn't be a problem
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 18, 2014, 07:27:53 PM
nonono, you can ask someone to do it for you. Shouldn't be a problem
Wait, give me a blank sheet with the time signature, or arrange the song? Could you?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 18, 2014, 08:13:55 PM
Go here: http://forum.ninsheetm.us/index.php?topic=685.0

Ask someone to change a specified section of the song into whatever you want it to be, and boom, problem solved.

I can't do it though, because I use an older version of Finale, so I can't even open your files.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 18, 2014, 08:19:28 PM
Thanks. Will do.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: McDucky on April 21, 2014, 09:42:46 PM
Key/Time sig. for this?
 
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 21, 2014, 09:56:55 PM
F#-minor
3/4 in the beginning
but when the band joins it's in 4/4, but with occasional single measures of 1/4 it seems. I guess it is possible it's even more complicated than that, but if you're going to arrange it, then me finding it out for you isn't a good idea.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on May 11, 2014, 01:14:01 AM
Below is the whole soundtrack
http://brawlcustommusic.com/game/8 (http://brawlcustommusic.com/game/8)
Im planning on doing the whole soundtrack from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door by Christmas.
Just making sure Time Sig. are Correct :)
Key Sig.s are another story lol

Story of The Thousand Year Door   Done by Spitllama
Peach & The Mysterious Map   4/4
Title Screen & Main Menu  Done by Spitllama
Mario and Luigi's House  4/4
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door   4/4
All Aboard
Chapter Opening   4/4
Rogueport  Done by the Tadpole Guy (forget his name lol)
Danger!  4/4
Event Battle (Replacement)  4/4
Battle Won 4/4
Battle Won with Injured Partner  4/4
A New Partner Joins  4/4
Character Abilities  3/4
Professor Frankly's Theme  4/4
Training Battle  4/4
Rogueport Sewers (Replacement)  4/4?  God help me when I do this one...
Battle Theme (Replacement)  4/4 Fierce might be doing this one.
Hall of the Thousand Year Door  4/4
Petal Meadow (Replacement)  4/4
Petalburg  Done by Dekutrombonst
You got Mail!  4/4
Level Up!  4/4
The 65th Super Fun Quirk Quiz  4/4
Right!  4/4
Taking a Nap    Done by Me
Hooktail Castle Appears  4/4
Hooktail Castle  4/4
Ms. Mowz's Theme  4/4
Boss - Hooktail   4/4
Reunion  4/4
Get the Crystal Star  4/4
Chapter Ending  4/4
Princess Peach's Theme  3/4
Peach Mail (Replacement)  4/4
Luigi's Story (Replacement)  4/4
Theme of the Punies  4/4
Boggly Woods  5/4
Theme of the Shadow Sirens  4/4
The Great Boggly Tree  4/4  This one I'll need help with the intro
Boss - The Shadow Sirens (Shadow Siren Scuffle)  Done by Spitllama
Madame Flurrie's Theme  4/4
More Danger  4/4
Magnus von Grapple  4/4
Boss - Magnus von Grapple (Replacement)  4/4
TEC's Waltz  3/4
Bowser's Theme  4/4
Bowser's Quest World 1-1  4/4
Bowser's Quest - Invincible  4/4
Bowser's Quest - Lose Life  2/4
Bowser's Quest - Level Clear  4/4
Don Pianta's Theme  4/4
Mini Game  4/4
The Robbo Thieves  4/4
The Blimp Ride  4/4
Glitzville  2/4 or 4/4?
The Glitz Pit  Done by The Deku Trombonist
Grubba's Theme  4/4
Glitz Pit Intro  4/4
Glitz Pit Outro  4/4
Paper Mario & The Giant Egg  4/4
X-Mail  4/4
Boss - Rawk Hawk  4/4
Treacherous Grubba  4/4
Boss - Macho Grubba  4/4
Ms. Jolene's Theme  Done by Me
Twilight Town  Done by Me
Twilight Trail  4/4
Creepy Steeple  4/4
Doopliss's Theme  4/4
Boss - Doopliss  Done by Me
Bowser's Quest - 2-1  3/4
Cooking with Zess T.  4/4
Voyage  4/4
Pirate Ghosts Appear  4/4
Keelhaul Key   4/4
Pirate's Grotto  4/4
Boss - Cortez (Replacement)  4/4
Disk System Startup  4/4
Pit of 100 Trials  4/4
The Excess Express  4/4   One of my favorites :)
Pennington's Theme  Done by Brassman
Dusk  4/4
Riverside Station  4/4
Boss - The Smorgs  4/4  Fun Battle :)
Poshley Heights  Done by Spitllama
The Sactum  4/4
Bowser's Quest - World 3-1
Fahr Outpost  I actually dont know
Shooting for the Stars  4/4
X-Naut Fortress (Replacement)  4/4
The Palace of Shadow  .....
Tower of Riddles  4/4
Deep into the Shadows  4/4
Boss - Grodus  4/4
Boss - Bowser  4/4
Shadow Queen Awakens  .....
Boss - Shadow Queen Part 1 (Peach Form) (Replacement)  4/4
We Believe in You Mario!  Done by Me
Boss - Shadow Queen Part 2   Done by Me :)
Peach is Saved  3/4
Leaving Rogueport  4/4
Going Home  4/4
Shining Rogueport  4/4
Here we Go Again  4/4
Game Over  4/4
Staff Credits 4/4
Found a Badge  4/4
Found an Important  4/4
Get Important Item  4/4
Secret Revealed  4/4
Get Important Item 4/4

Please tell me if I'm wrong on any of them....
If you would like to do some of these, just tell me :)
Spitllama and maybe Bloop are doing some with me.



Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on May 11, 2014, 10:15:20 AM
Um, I don't really want to go through and double check the entire soundtrack .-. but here's the intro to hooktail castle (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8o1xq51ffc8zw5c/Hooktail%20Castle.mus?dl=1&token_hash=AAHVrcf6sHv3YvRqsy3lfNIwcNdug5QaSMhn8bRsQIqO1w&expiry=1399803306) if you want it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on May 11, 2014, 02:26:08 PM
Thats fine....didnt really expect anyone to check them all...lol.
Just want to know if Boggly Woods (5/4) and Glitzville (2/4) are right.


Thanks for the intro by the way. Did you start it and never finish it or...?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 11, 2014, 03:04:45 PM
they are correct
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on May 12, 2014, 02:26:32 AM
Great :)
One of the 1st 5/4 songs I've ever heard
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on May 12, 2014, 02:28:59 AM
Great :)
One of the 1st 5/4 songs I've ever heard
You've heard of Mission: Impossible, right?  That's pretty much the main 5/4 song.  The other one is the theme from The Incredibles!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on May 12, 2014, 02:55:10 AM
You really need to play/listen to more concert band music, MLF :P


Granted, this shifts meters a lot, but I mean, if you've never heard/played anything in 5/4 at all, that needs to change, yo
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on May 13, 2014, 08:10:22 PM
You really need to play/listen to more concert band music, MLF :P


Granted, this shifts meters a lot, but I mean, if you've never heard/played anything in 5/4 at all, that needs to change, yo
You're Right :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on May 13, 2014, 09:17:58 PM
I'm arranging the super metroid soundtrack (musical songs not on site) and need the time signatures and keys double checked

Crateria--space pirates emerge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTBf5_T6LI&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=6) 4/4, C minor

Brinstar--Overgrown with Vegetation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLcyg4Tq5uY&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=6)  4/4, C minor

Spore Spawn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZwmwC9KkEQ&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=14)  4/4 ? ? ? ? ? (completed)

Hostile Incoming (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5KJtpOqbVc&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=32) (before boss)  4/4 C sharp minor?

Kraid/other bosses (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aECNX-k-OV8&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=16)  ? ? ? ?   ? ? ?  ? ? ? ?

Theme of Samus Aran: Galactic Warrior (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lTWCkF8B3o)  4/4 Changes a lot, not sure what keys it's in

Mother Brain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwt740KznHE&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4&index=22)  7/8 ? ? ? ?

credits/ending (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWdRKZ6QgcU&index=25&list=PL0BCE0BA953AC33E4) 4/4 starts in C# minor, but I think it changes.

Already did: Brinstar (Red Soil Area)

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on May 13, 2014, 11:50:01 PM
Spore Spawn: F# minor
Hostile Incoming: F# minor
Kraid/other bosses: 5/4 - E minor
Mother Brain: F# minor

Take the key signatures with a grain of salt, I didn't transcribe much notes.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on May 14, 2014, 12:15:10 AM
Spore Spawn: F# minor
Hostile Incoming: F# minor
Kraid/other bosses: 5/4 - E minor
Mother Brain: F# minor

Take the key signatures with a grain of salt, I didn't transcribe much notes.
Is it fine to put them in G flat minor instead? For some reason, I find it easier to play.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 14, 2014, 12:23:31 AM
Have you already started the Spore Spawn boss theme? I had an arrangement of that somewhere...

Also, why is Gb minor easier to read than F# minor? I'd much rather only read 3 sharps than 5 flats and 2 double flats d:
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on May 14, 2014, 01:21:45 AM
Um, no? Playing isn't any different and Gb minor is hell to sight read.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on May 14, 2014, 01:46:41 AM
Woops, I was thinking of F# major. This makes it easier.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on June 05, 2014, 10:20:06 AM
3/4?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Clanker37 on June 05, 2014, 10:41:24 AM
I'd say 3/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on June 05, 2014, 02:02:28 PM
I'd say 3/4
Ditto


While I'm here, I do have a question about time signatures:
How can you tell the difference between 3/4 & 6/8 and 4/4 and 2/4?
Those are the only ones I have trouble recognizing the difference between.
Unlike 4/4 & 12/8 which I CAN tell the difference between :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on June 05, 2014, 02:29:22 PM
I'm pretty sure 4/4 has 4 discernable beats, while 2/4 only has 2.
And 3/4 has 3 beats while 6/8 can be divided into 2 equal parts.
And, Undersea Palace from chrono trigger is 6/8 right? I think I messed up and made the electronic part eigth notes instead of 16ths. That's going to be a pain to fix.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on June 05, 2014, 02:31:03 PM
I'm pretty sure 4/4 has 4 discernable beats, while 2/4 only has 2.
And 3/4 has 3 beats while 6/8 can be divided into 2 equal parts.
And, Undersea Palace from chrono trigger is 6/8 right? I think I messed up and made the electronic part eigth notes instead of 16ths. That's going to be a pain to fix.
I think I understand what your saying. Thanks :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zunawe on June 05, 2014, 03:58:56 PM
Think pulses and groupings. Beat 3 in 4/4 is weaker than beat 1. If you're having trouble telling the difference between 4/4 and 2/4, try conducting it in 4/4 and see if it feels weird. 3/4 and 6/8 is much more obvious. In terms of eighth notes, 3/4 has three groups of two while 6/8 has two groups of three. The beats in 3/4 are Strong-Weak-Weak, and in 6/8 they're Strong-Weak-Weak-Medium-Weak-Weak. Back to the conducting, 3/4 is a 3 pattern, and 6/8 is almost always a 2 pattern.

Anyway
The first measure is 7/8. Right now, what's bothering me is what would be the left hand in the first 30ish seconds. There are 8 eighth notes in every measure (with a triplet every other measure). The problem is the groupings. I kinda want to say 8/8 grouped 2+3+3, but that really doesn't fit the right hand. Then again, the right hand isn't consistent with the left anyway.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on June 05, 2014, 04:30:45 PM
um, you shouldn't really be worrying about that grouping thing. The song is just 4/4, and in terms of grouping the eights it's just 2+2+2+2. Syncopated rhythms doesn't affect the meter. In stupid classical music it can, but that's wrong.
Only time signature changes are the one at about 1:00, which is just one measure that's 2/4,
and then right after that it goes a bit crazy into some 3/-signature, and melts over to the beginning again on repeat. To get this right it would take some analysis.

About the first measure:
Are you absolutely sure about 7/8?
Based on the beginning, I wouldn't put it as 7/8, but rather as 4/4 (like the rest of the song), but rather just start that sixteenth run after an eightnote rest. There's no right answer to that measure, because it doesn't establish a time before the A-part starts, so it's better to have it in 4/4 both for reading purposes, and for consistency with the rest of the arrangement.
Though this run comes back later before the repeat, so if you've already analyzed it and found that it has to be 7/8 then it's fine.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zunawe on June 05, 2014, 05:35:09 PM
It just looks wrong on paper and the pulses don't match. Beh. I'll leave it unless I find that something is absolutely right.

When it repeats, there are actually 20 sixteenths instead of the 14 at the beginning, so I'll have to figure out how that works with the time sig before it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on June 05, 2014, 09:36:21 PM
And, Undersea Palace from chrono trigger is 6/8 right? I think I messed up and made the electronic part eigth notes instead of 16ths. That's going to be a pain to fix.
Was I right? I don't want to have to change it back (or even change it in the first place: I'm halfway done.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on July 19, 2014, 11:20:28 PM
Need a Key Signature please :)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L6miLWHtUk
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 20, 2014, 12:10:41 AM
G major. It's got some mixolydian going on
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on July 20, 2014, 12:24:52 AM
Thanks :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on July 20, 2014, 07:33:53 PM
G major. It's got some mixolydian going on
Is mixolydian...
Tonic whole whole half whole whole half whole?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 20, 2014, 07:51:04 PM
Is mixolydian...
Tonic whole whole half whole whole half whole?

Yeah... but that's probably not the best way to think about it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on July 20, 2014, 09:02:38 PM
Yeah... but that's probably not the best way to think about it.
I think about it as G
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on July 20, 2014, 09:33:36 PM
Agreed, firearrow. There are two ways I think of modes:

1. By position on the ionian (i.e. major) scale. Dorian starts on the supertonic (2), phrygian starts on the mediant (3), lydian starts on the subdominant (4), mixolydian starts on the dominant (5), aeolian starts on the submediant (6), and locrian starts on the leading tone (7). So, want to play G mixolydian? Same notes as C major, starting on G. Want to play C# locrian? Same notes as D major, starting on C#. This is what I was told to be the "correct" way of thinking of it, because it considers the modes in context, but as long as you understand where they come from, I don't see the harm in using this next method for convenience:

2. By notes raised or lowered. Lydian has one note raised from major (4), mixolydian has one note lowered from major (7), dorian has two notes lowered (7, 3), aeolian has three notes lowered (7, 3, 6), phrygian has four notes lowered (7, 3, 6, 2), and locrian has five notes lowered (7, 3, 6, 2, 5). As long as you know why these notes are lowered (typically along with the order in which they are lowered), I see no problem doing it that way for quickness, especially considering what happens with writing key signature.

There are technically 2 options for writing key signature in modal music. You can write the key of the root "major" (i.e. C major for G mixolydian), or you can write in the closest related major or minor key of the same letter name (i.e. C major for C lydian and mixolydian, C natural minor for C dorian, phrygian, and locrian). According to my professors, both approaches are acceptable. However, what I see most frequently is the former, which I believe is what Jompa suggested. If you write the key signature in that way, then way #2 for thinking about modes is most convenient, as it tells you which notes to raise or lower with accidentals in relation to the major or minor key signature you've given it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 20, 2014, 10:09:29 PM
I swear this is what's gonna happen my first two years of college:

Professor: Your a very dedicated stupid, putting in the time to ace every test.
Me: Naw, I've just been reading Fierce and Jompa posts for 6 years.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on July 20, 2014, 10:30:07 PM
Professor: Your a very dedicated stupid
Yep.  Every professor is like that.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 20, 2014, 10:31:58 PM
Oh god spell correct on this phone...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 20, 2014, 10:56:20 PM
1. By position on the ionian (i.e. major) scale. Dorian starts on the supertonic (2), phrygian starts on the mediant (3), lydian starts on the subdominant (4), mixolydian starts on the dominant (5), aeolian starts on the submediant (6), and locrian starts on the leading tone (7). So, want to play G mixolydian? Same notes as C major, starting on G. Want to play C# locrian? Same notes as D major, starting on C#. This is what I was told to be the "correct" way of thinking of it, because it considers the modes in context, but as long as you understand where they come from, I don't see the harm in using this next method for convenience:

2. By notes raised or lowered. Lydian has one note raised from major (4), mixolydian has one note lowered from major (7), dorian has two notes lowered (7, 3), aeolian has three notes lowered (7, 3, 6), phrygian has four notes lowered (7, 3, 6, 2), and locrian has five notes lowered (7, 3, 6, 2, 5). As long as you know why these notes are lowered (typically along with the order in which they are lowered), I see no problem doing it that way for quickness, especially considering what happens with writing key signature.

There are technically 2 options for writing key signature in modal music. You can write the key of the root "major" (i.e. C major for G mixolydian), or you can write in the closest related major or minor key of the same letter name (i.e. C major for C lydian and mixolydian, C natural minor for C dorian, phrygian, and locrian). According to my professors, both approaches are acceptable. However, what I see most frequently is the former, which I believe is what Jompa suggested. If you write the key signature in that way, then way #2 for thinking about modes is most convenient, as it tells you which notes to raise or lower with accidentals in relation to the major or minor key signature you've given it.
I'm really sorry, but I disagree to most of this.
You seem to treat the modes like they've spawned (for lack of better word) from what you refer to as "the root", but that is not how to think of modes. If this was about modal scales, then you would be on to something, but it sounds like you have mixed the two up, which is pretty understandable, and really common. (sorry if you haven't and I've misunderstood, but here comes an explanation anyways):
This is easy to mix up because the modes share the same names as their respective modal scales, and therefore it's easy to think they're the same sometimes, like: mixolydian is first and foremost simply a scale, but a song could be basing it's entire harmonic structure upon it, and in that case it would be in the mixolydian mode.
But: if you were writing a song in C ionian and then suddenly the dominant chord G major popped up, and you wanted to write the scale that fits the key signature using G as a starting point, then yes, you would be writing the mixolydian scale, but you can't say the song suddenly is in the mode of G mixolydian. It still is C ionian mode, because C is the tonal center, and the only thing that can change that is a modulation. Chord progression is not enough.
^This is sorta a reply to your #1 explanation, where you sound the most like you are mixing up the two.
Your #2 explanation makes the most sense out of your post, but it still seems you think of that "root" as the tonic.

The reason I bothered reacting to this is because this is actually pretty crucial when arranging a song that uses modes - I wouldn't have heard straight away that that song was using mixolydian if I was thinking about it from a different "root" than what is actually the tonic. If that was how it worked modes wouldn't exist!
The reason you can even hear everything that is going on in the music is because everything is a specific interval away from a tonal center (the tonic). So that's why we have to think about it from that tonic! It could even change the mode in the song, without it having to count as a modulation at all, and then thinking about it from that "root"-thing would just be bad.

The right way to think about modes is to treat them like key signatures. (i'll come back to the notation of them though)
If a song is in G mixolydian then the tonal center is G major, and the underlying scale that will be used for at least the majority of the piece (unless it changes mode or modulates) will be the G mixolydian scale (G major scale with the minor seventh). This has no relation to the C major scale in any way, and therefore it's G we should be/are thinking about when listening to/arranging/composing music in G mixolydian.
And the absolute correct way of notating the key signature of a song that is in a mode is; by not actually paying attention to the mode, and base it of whether it is major or minor out of the tonic (for the same reasons as above actually) (though that other method is used as well).

btw should be noted that modes isn't limited to the church modes (the ones that spawn out of the major scale). There are a whole bunch more.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on July 20, 2014, 10:58:49 PM
I just read that and got a headache.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on July 20, 2014, 11:02:53 PM
I just read that and got a headache.
Ya my piano teacher explains it much better
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on July 20, 2014, 11:07:41 PM
I'm hoping to take a music theory class at my local college. Hopefully I'll understand it then.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 20, 2014, 11:26:24 PM
~snip~

Then why is, say, A minor, written with the key signature of C major rather than A major? I really don't understand what your saying, how can mixolydian mode be minor or major if both of which already are a mode (aeolian and ionian respectively.)

You seem to be saying modes are all their own scales and should be notated as such, but if that was your argument, wouldn't it be more logical to notate D mixolydian with one sharp?

I feel like I'm just misunderstanding your point, but I can't think of any different way to interpret what your saying.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 21, 2014, 12:00:24 AM
Then why is, say, A minor, written with the key signature of C major rather than A major? I really don't understand what your saying, how can mixolydian mode be minor or major if both of which already are a mode (aeolian and ionian respectively.)
Well, now you're treating "major scale" (which is the same as the ionian scale) and "major tonal gender" as the same thing.
Major (as in the tonal gender) refers to wether the tonal gender of the tonic is major or minor, which is only determined by the third. If the third in the tonal center's scale is major it's major, while it's minor if the third is minor. All modes that uses a major third (example: ionian, dominant phrygian, mixolydian b6, etc.) are major, while all modes that uses the minor third (example: aeolian, dorean, phrygian etc.) are minor. Some like to think of locrian as "diminished", but whatever.
A quote from what I wrote above:
the absolute correct way of notating the key signature of a song that is in a mode is; by not actually paying attention to the mode, and base it of whether it is major or minor out of the tonic
^I am ofc referring to the tonal gender when I say that it should be based of whether the tonic is major or minor.

Quote
You seem to be saying modes are all their own scales and should be notated as such, but if that was your argument, wouldn't it be more logical to notate D mixolydian with one sharp?
Actually, I'm saying the opposite. Half of my post actually is about how this is not the right way to think.

Quote
I feel like I'm just misunderstanding your point, but I can't think of any different way to interpret what your saying.
I guess this section is the main point:
The right way to think about modes is to treat them like key signatures. (i'll come back to the notation of them though)
If a song is in G mixolydian then the tonal center is G major, and the underlying scale that will be used for at least the majority of the piece (unless it changes mode or modulates) will be the G mixolydian scale (G major scale with the minor seventh). This has no relation to the C major scale in any way, and therefore it's G we should be/are thinking about when listening to/arranging/composing music in G mixolydian.
I just wanted to point out that you always have to think from the tonic, even if the song is using some mode, because that is exactly what we already do when we're listening to the music! Listening after that "root" that Fierce was talking about is impossible.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 21, 2014, 12:42:44 AM
Thank you for clarifying, now your argument actually makes sense to me. I don't have much else to say other than I was always taught to do it fierces way. As to which is correct I'll leave to you guys.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on July 21, 2014, 02:25:29 AM
sorry if you haven't and I've misunderstood

Bingo, haha. I'm essentially in agreement with you. It seems like way #2 is almost exactly what you're saying, in fact. It was really just me misusing the term "root" because I couldn't think of a better word to describe "the scale from which the other modes are derived". I should've clarified that mode is determined by root in context of these scales, but yeah, we really don't disagree on this, haha. #1 is basically just an explanation of where the different modes come from, and for some reason my theory professors have thought that's a lot more important to focus on.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 21, 2014, 07:12:47 AM
Bingo, haha. I'm essentially in agreement with you. It seems like way #2 is almost exactly what you're saying, in fact. It was really just me misusing the term "root" because I couldn't think of a better word to describe "the scale from which the other modes are derived". I should've clarified that mode is determined by root in context of these scales, but yeah, we really don't disagree on this, haha. #1 is basically just an explanation of where the different modes come from, and for some reason my theory professors have thought that's a lot more important to focus on.

Music theory books literally tell you that they're all based off of the same root. Its probably a similar issue with IT"S ALWAYS G# NOT Ab in A MINOR - where it's a good rule of thumb, but by no means how it actually works or appropriate for every scenario. This is totally awesome being able to absorb all this information for free :33
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on July 31, 2014, 02:30:09 AM
So, I'll post here a lot, but what time signature is the first part in? 6/8, or 4/4?
Spoiler
[close]
And the key signature for this? (:50 until 1:18)
Spoiler
[close]
And the key here too? (:18 'til 1:02)
Spoiler
[close]
And, finally, the time signature here too.
Spoiler
[close]
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 31, 2014, 11:05:26 AM
1. Well, what's arguably the correct way of doing it would be 12/8, but you can pretty much choose between that and swing 4/4, though that will probably mean a lot more work, as you'd have to write out every tuplet and stuff...
2. It's a bit crazy, but in the areas where it stays with what seems to be its tonal centers it seems to switch between G dominant phrygian and C minor as tonics, which are strongly tied together if you think the G dominant phrygian is just played over the dominant to C minor. So I'd write it in C minor.
3. This one modulates a bit. First you have the rhythmic strings and they play in C minor, but before long they modulate to E minor. In both these keys there is some dorian going on. Then it modulates into A minor and stays like that until it goes back to C minor on repeat.
4. It's normal 4/4 all the way. You just have to think that the tubular bells come on the second beat instead of the first.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on August 08, 2014, 01:31:08 AM
This may sound simple, but what time signature is this in? I decided to finally finish it, but there seem to be way too many triplets for 4/4, so what is it? And is there a fast way to change all of your notes to match the change in the time signature?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 08, 2014, 02:30:44 AM
First, what song are you talking about?
And given what you wrote, I take it it's a "4-beat-a-measure with swing and a bunch of tuplets" kinda song. If this is the case it means that you can choose, but most people would want it in 12/8. So 4/4 is ok, and the fact that there are a lot of tuplets doesn't make it wrong, but as you might guess, 12/8 would in most cases look a lot better and be easier to read. There isn't a good way to change time signature at all really, and especially not in this case. It would literally be faster to start over.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on August 08, 2014, 02:40:02 AM
Why didn't I post the song? *facepalm* I had it open and copied the link, but didn't paste it. Here it is:
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 08, 2014, 11:16:39 AM
In that case I would definitely use 6/8, and so would the rest of the world too. But you could use 4/4, if you already started it that way. As I said, changing it is a nightmare.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on August 08, 2014, 01:41:18 PM
I think I'll just keep it in 4/4. I started it a while ago, so I didn't think twice about the time signature. And I got 27 measure in. Not changing that much...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on August 10, 2014, 12:00:30 AM
Are there any rules on double sharps/flats?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 10, 2014, 12:22:44 AM
When you think about it, it comes down to the same rules as flats/sharps.
Mainly occurs in key signatures with three or more flats/sharps, and the more sharps/flats there are in the key signature the more double flats/sharps are likely to occur.

You probably wonder "why not just use a natural", but using a natural in these cases (and especially for the ones where there are many accidentals in the key signatures) pretty often results in putting the note on the wrong step of the scale (which is the most important problem as it greatly affects the readability, and often conflicts with other notes, creating even more accidentals and confusion), which then both contradicts the underlying chords and key signature (even though the accidentalized note is an irregularity to the key signature).

Though, in some cases using naturals is just fine, if it works better that way (usually considering chromatics), but lets say it is more strict to follow these double sharp/flat rules when there are more sharps/flats in the key signature. That is probably a good rule of thumb for this.

Why am I up in the middle of the night...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on August 10, 2014, 12:26:23 AM
Thanks!
Your probably wondering why I'm asking. Im having trouble figuring the accidentals out in "King Bowser's Theme".
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 10, 2014, 01:06:58 AM
I figured it'd be faster to do it in a document myself, so here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/FIXKing%20Bowser%27s%20Theme.mus
This song is horrible when it comes to accidentals, but these are probably the best solutions.

Here's what I did:

First four measures:
Here your faulty accidental use pretty much only comes down to you not considering ascending/descending chromatics. The changes I did were mainly to keep it with as few loose accidentals as possible.

Next eight measures:
Left hand - there is no good way of doing this, but this is the best possible way imo (I'll come back to other possible solutions down at the bottom). Beware that I made some accidentals visible, just so the performer doesn't forget they're there before the end of the measure.
Right hand - changed whatever E naturals you had into F-flats to match up with left hand (well, mainly anyways).

Next four measures:
these are good.

Last four measures:
I changed similarly to the start (and with a bit more), so look at the document.
Last measure was good btw.

You see that measure I added? This is the measure#5 left hand figure, but with an alternative choice of accidentals. This could also work, and I can imagine some people even saying it's more correct. I wouldn't say so though, as you can't use note steps as a good argument when three of the note steps are half steps apart. And neither do I agree to those G double flats when the step under them (F) isn't even flattened in the key signature (in this case I don't agree, at least). It keeps the accidentals to a minimum though! But I would not go with this.
I suppose it could also be solved by using D# instead of Eb, to keep accidentals to a minimum, but with such a crazy mix between sharps and flats is pretty painful to read, and not to mention wrong according to the key signature.
I don't think it matters too much which one of these you choose as long as it is readable, considering this will have to be practiced to be performed anyways.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on August 10, 2014, 01:43:31 AM
WOW!
Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on August 10, 2014, 05:54:55 PM
I think I understand better! Thanks!
My biggest problems and hardest things for me are accidentals, finding the key, and correct beaming of notes.
But I'm working on them! :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on August 11, 2014, 09:52:46 PM
Help the noob.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on August 11, 2014, 09:58:22 PM
4/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on August 11, 2014, 10:08:54 PM
ok
and is it C Maj? G Maj?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on August 11, 2014, 10:15:49 PM
I am having most dang trouble finding the key of a song.
An explanation would be great from someone who knows how to find the key. I know it has something to do with the tonal center...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 11, 2014, 10:30:38 PM
It starts out in G major, then when it modulates it's B major, and then it modulates to A major, and then back on repeat.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on August 11, 2014, 10:35:17 PM
Any rules on beaming of notes?
I'm havin' some trouble with that in this song

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 11, 2014, 11:22:59 PM
I think the most important thing to think about in 4/4 is to let the third beat be visible through the beaming of notes, and in many cases it's an idea to think about letting all the beats be visible through the beaming, though that can be up to preferences. The "dotted quarter+dotted quarter+quarter"-figure is often mistakenly used, because it is an easy rhythm we all know anyways, though that doesn't really justify it. In the case of "quarter+halfnote+quarter" it is allowed.
In "/8-with-dotted-quarter-beats"-signatures all the beats should be visible. When people break that rule in these cases it leaves the sheet totally unreadable. The "quarter+quarter+quarter"-figure appears every now and then, and if you ask a music teacher they'd say it isn't allowed, but it doesn't exactly affect the readability any, shouldn't affect the performer's approach to the music, and is so often mistakenly used that you could be called wrong for not doing it.
3/-signatures is probably where the rules matters the least. You can go "quarter+halfnote", "dotted quarter+eight+quarter", "halfnote+quarter", "dotted quarter+dotted quarter" and no one should really mind. But stuff like "dotted quarter+quarter+eight", "eight+quarter+dotted quarter", "quarter+eight+dotted quarter" are much less allowed, mainly because they are actually extremely hard to read.
It's all a matter of readability. Why choose note beaming that's difficult to read?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on August 11, 2014, 11:39:34 PM
Oh Wow!
Thanks! That helped a lot :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on August 13, 2014, 02:05:44 AM
It starts out in G major, then when it modulates it's B major, and then it modulates to A major, and then back on repeat.
Thanks
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on August 13, 2014, 02:41:09 AM
Out of curiosity, are you arranging this? :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on August 13, 2014, 03:37:35 AM
I know this is in B flat, but what time signature is it in? The bass keeps messing me up. It would help if I knew what beats it was on..
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Echo on August 13, 2014, 04:06:23 AM
^ Pretty sure it's 5/4. There's a rhythm throughout the song that's pretty common in 5/4 songs (the strings at 0:14), and Yoko does a lot of 5/4 songs too.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 13, 2014, 12:39:37 PM
I know this is in B flat, but what time signature is it in?
It's more like G-minor, and then it goes to C-minor (but that's really brief, so maybe you shouldn't include it) , and then to F-minor.
It's just 5/4 all the way.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bloop on August 31, 2014, 12:18:24 AM
This doesn't really belong here but it's kinda related.


This song modulates into Ab minor (I think) at 0:19, but I'm not sure how to write down the accidentals for the melody.
The notes in the first measure after the key change are Ab, Eb, D, Db, C, B, Bb, A. Should I use some weird accidentals like double flat stuff or should I just change the key signature to G# minor?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 31, 2014, 12:46:27 AM
Should I use some not weird at all accidentals like double flat stuff?
That would be the correct way of doing it in Ab-minor, but I don't see why you're even doing the song in Ab-minor, when G#-minor has less accidentals.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on August 31, 2014, 12:47:58 AM
^Pretty much. They're only chromatics anyways, I wouldn't over think it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bloop on August 31, 2014, 12:47:59 AM
but I don't see why you're even doing the song in Ab-minor, when G#-minor has less accidentals.
The first part of the song is in Bb-minor, and I thought switching from Bb-minor to G#-minor would make some hard time reading the sheet.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 31, 2014, 09:13:32 AM
The first part of the song is in Bb-minor, and I thought switching from Bb-minor to G#-minor would make some hard time reading the sheet.
Nah, that shouldn't be something to worry about. Any modulation should make the performer have to readjust themselves, so in this case it's not a problem. If you were modulating to like the subdominant, or something like that, then it would be something to think about, but modulating down a whole step doesn't have that diatonic function stuff over it as much.
But ofc, you decide! Ab-minor is just as correct as G#-minor, it's just it's less readable. But if you're not up to using double flats (which you have to do in Ab-minor), then choose G#-minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bloop on September 01, 2014, 07:42:42 AM
Then I'll gladly make it G#-minor :p Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on September 01, 2014, 03:53:07 PM
The first part of the song is in Bb-minor, and I thought switching from Bb-minor to G#-minor would make some hard time reading the sheet.

If it really bothered you, you could put the beginning in A# minor d:  it's up to you.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on September 01, 2014, 04:01:08 PM
In truth, A-flat minor is a lot easier to read than G-sharp minor anyway....
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on September 01, 2014, 04:06:17 PM
^its a matter of opinion, really. As a brass player I'm with you on this one but some people prefer five sharps over seven flats.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on September 01, 2014, 04:07:08 PM
Hmm yeah you're right. For some reason sharp keys just don't sit as well with me when there are more than a few of them.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 01, 2014, 08:22:19 PM
Hmm yeah you're right. For some reason sharp keys just don't sit as well with me when there are more than a few of them.
Same with me. Can't read F# for the life of me.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 01, 2014, 09:40:26 PM
I would definitely prefer five sharps over seven flats, but I don't see either of them as troublesome.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 07, 2014, 02:08:13 AM
Alright, I started Life, but the note lengths are getting weird. Is this really 4/4? Here's (https://www.dropbox.com/s/si4ntryu1xbkyjo/Life.mus?dl=0) what I have so far, and here's the original:
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 07, 2014, 10:27:06 AM
Yes it's 4/4 all the way.
btw, the rhythm of that figure you've arranged so far is not "quarter tuplet + quarter tuplet + quarter tuplet", but "dotted eighth + sixteenth tied with eighth + eighth".
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 07, 2014, 10:32:13 PM
Are you sure? Then there must be some weird rhythm later. I started going further and updated my link, but when I slow the song down, the quick notes are not 16ths or I am not counting right. I think I counted about 18, but I may be wrong.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 07, 2014, 11:33:24 PM
I am absolutely sure. The drum beat should make it obviously enough.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 07, 2014, 11:35:02 PM
I am absolutely sure. The drum beat should make it obviously enough.
Then what are the quick notes? The 4/4 time signature has sounded right from my first guesses.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 07, 2014, 11:39:19 PM
They sound like normal sixteenths to me. Exactly where is it you are hearing eighteen instead?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 07, 2014, 11:53:13 PM
My imagination.  :P I can't believe I just did that.
I feel so stupid
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on September 08, 2014, 03:10:14 AM
I feel so stupid
Stop touching yourself. Just kidding. I'm not at all serious nor do I mean that at all. Please don't take it personally or seriously.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on September 17, 2014, 10:19:35 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?autoplay=1&v=R9DNeEas6fw

I wanna say c minor?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 17, 2014, 10:49:36 PM
Not bad judgement!,
but it's actually in C dominant phrygian, which means C-major.
Later inn it goes to some tonality of D-flat which at first glance seem kinda wholetone-based (though not all the way) - anyways, it's Db-major here!
And then it kinda finds its way back to C dominant phrygian again.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on September 17, 2014, 11:36:00 PM
Ok :)
What about the stupid accidentals? They are gonna be one heck of a problem. How about I post it on my page...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 18, 2014, 06:19:03 AM
Nothing wrong with some accidentals
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 24, 2014, 12:56:57 AM
I guess this doesn't really count, but didn't warrant making a new topic.
So, how do I get the dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, eighth, eighth with staccato marks?
Tying it for proper note barring takes away from the staccato effect.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MaestroUGC on September 24, 2014, 03:11:08 AM
You can just put a rest for the value of the tied note and put staccato marks on the first note.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 24, 2014, 03:34:43 AM
But it looks weird with a dotted 8th, 16th, 8th rest, quarter, 16th rest, dotted 8th.  :P That's why I asked.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MaestroUGC on September 24, 2014, 04:03:11 AM
It's a clipped note anyway, you can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MaestroUGC on September 24, 2014, 04:05:41 AM
Or just use eighth notes and rests.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 24, 2014, 04:06:25 AM
Or just use eighth notes and rests.
That sounds good.  :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on September 24, 2014, 04:36:35 AM
I guess this doesn't really count, but didn't warrant making a new topic.
So, how do I get the dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, dotted-eighth, eighth, eighth with staccato marks?
Tying it for proper note barring takes away from the staccato effect.

No it doesn't. Staccato has absolutely nothing to do with a note's length. It is a stylistic mark. If you want a shorter note, make the note vault smaller, otherwise, what you said would be correct. Just be sure to use proper rhythm groupings according to the time signature used.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 24, 2014, 06:40:58 AM
Um, actually, staccato can well and truly mean that the note should be played shorter, but traditionally, staccato has been treated as a stylistic mark in classicl music. But that just means the mark has more meanings, like a lot of other articulations also have.
Most people would say that staccato means that the note should be shortened, and I'd say that's what it means first and foremost today. But I'd also say that what you're saying isn't wrong.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on September 25, 2014, 03:42:21 AM
Is this supposed to be in C major or C minor?
[MUS] (https://www.dropbox.com/s/s8i346o0hyarm4l/FOSTERS.mus?dl=0)

C major is the tonic chord, but it's obviously a c minor scale. wut
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 25, 2014, 03:47:12 AM
link doesn't work.  :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on September 25, 2014, 03:55:58 AM
works for me.  :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on September 25, 2014, 04:33:43 AM
Of course it does, it's your account, haha. You probably linked to the file as you would access it from your own dropbox; make sure you actually share it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 25, 2014, 02:47:38 PM
C major is the tonic chord
Then there's your answer.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on September 25, 2014, 09:41:22 PM
Try the link now I guess.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 25, 2014, 09:47:37 PM
Pretty sure that's C with a lot of accidentals
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 25, 2014, 10:33:46 PM
C major is the tonic chord, but it's obviously a c minor scale. wut
First off, if C-major is the tonic chord, the key is C-major - no argument.
Also, it's wrong to say the underlying scale of this song is C-minor, because that only occurs on the chords that are total exceptions from the key and mode - in this case it's not even a mode, it's just C-ionian. So again, it's C-major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on September 25, 2014, 11:11:29 PM
First off, if C-major is the tonic chord, the key is C-major - no argument.
Also, it's wrong to say the underlying scale of this song is C-minor, because that only occurs on the chords that are total exceptions from the key and mode - in this case it's not even a mode, it's just C-ionian. So again, it's C-major.

Ok, sure. Im curious though, is this a normal composition style - using an inverse tonic chord for a chord progression common in another key?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on September 27, 2014, 04:14:22 PM
I need the TS and Key :p

and I know this is the wrong thread, but for the "bum bum"(<-whatever im supposed to call it), should I take it out of the song or put it into the left hand? I dont see how it'll be playable but I dont really feel like taking it out of the song...I hope I'm making some sense >-<
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 27, 2014, 04:40:14 PM
4/4,
D-major,
and I have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on September 27, 2014, 04:49:21 PM
Zoroark, are you referring to that synthetic bass thing that plays throughout? That can be notated if you want.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on September 27, 2014, 04:54:00 PM
oh wait it can be played
never mind, my ears must be broken. x'D

and ty jompo
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatGamer on December 19, 2014, 02:49:17 AM
What are the keys, and time signatures of these songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1tjASbtOmI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlNz7qu3UO8
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on December 19, 2014, 08:03:36 AM
The first one is in 4, in C-major mixolydian, with funky underlying swing eights.
The second one is in 3, in F-minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on December 19, 2014, 04:13:41 PM
Personally I'd probably be inclined to slap a 12/16 time on that second one.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatGamer on December 19, 2014, 05:47:13 PM
Alright, thanks guys! I'll start right away!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on December 19, 2014, 06:03:01 PM
I think you're interpreting Jompa's suggestion of 3 in a different tempo than I am. I'm thinking of it as dotted half note = about 72, i.e. it'd typically be conducted in 1. In which case, I'd recommend switching to 6/8 (dotted half note = dotted half note) at certain points of syncopation, because although the syncopation would be totally legible in 3/4, alternating between 3/4 and 6/8 isn't uncommon, and the syncopation would clearly be implying the latter, anyways.

Granted, a uniform 3/4 at that tempo (or even 6/8 at dotted quarter = 72) would probably still be preferable over 12/16 (assumedly in quarter note = 108), mostly because /16 meters are much less common and, in my opinion, no simpler for reading syncopations than more common meters with the same amount of beats. (Also, at that tempo, the underlying rhythm would have a near-constant split down the middle of the bar, which makes me wonder why not just use a /8 meter, if that's the way you're gonna go).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatGamer on December 19, 2014, 06:09:17 PM
Heh, thanks, but I gave up the 2nd one a while ago. Sorry to waste your time.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatGamer on December 19, 2014, 08:06:53 PM
What is the time signature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJAzhRz_U5s
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on December 19, 2014, 08:14:39 PM
4/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatGamer on December 19, 2014, 08:20:49 PM
K, thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on December 28, 2014, 03:39:23 AM
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nr45sx6y83a8jj5/ORAS%20arrangement.mus?dl=0

hey, this is the right time signature and format, right
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on December 28, 2014, 11:59:51 AM
I'd recommend 12/8, but it's fine.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on January 04, 2015, 02:07:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z8t8cLr748

Time signature?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
4/4, with a couple of occational 3/4-measures
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on January 15, 2015, 11:13:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVjHe8F1KC8

Timesig/Key?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on January 15, 2015, 11:17:52 PM
3/4 A minor
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 15, 2015, 11:22:25 PM
Make that 12/8 unless you want the tempo to be something like 400 bpm
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on January 15, 2015, 11:29:09 PM
3/4 time with the quarter note at 188 is nothing abnormal.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 16, 2015, 12:33:33 AM
On my phone this song sounded totally 12/8 (the drums were really faint), but now on my computer I can hear that it's in 3/4, so you're right.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on January 16, 2015, 07:39:37 AM
I mean, technically speaking this is pretty constantly alternating between 6/8 and 3/4, though yeah there's nothing wrong with writing it all in 3/4 and every other bar as a mild syncopation. Could also write it all as 6/8 imo.

Is there a name for a time signature that indicates this alternation, though? I played a brass choir piece recently that listed both 3/4 and 6/8 at the beginning in the order in which they alternate, and wasn't sure if that was more common. There may have been something similar in the third movement of Grainger's Lincolnshire Posy as well, but that might have just been a shitty engraving job on long rests (I wouldn't be surprised, the entire engraving was pretty awful).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yugi on January 18, 2015, 11:45:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzbpnEg4XfE

decided to go with a different mgr song, tume key
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: McDucky on January 30, 2015, 05:18:32 PM
decided to go with a different mgr song, tume key
   

You probably shouldn't trust me, but 6/8 Emin?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on January 30, 2015, 06:10:37 PM
Hearing 4/4, but idk. I think it changes in places.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 30, 2015, 07:22:31 PM
There might be some awkward language barrier stuff in this post:
It's in 12/8 or 6/8 or whatever you prefer but there's a lot of duplet eights being played over the underlying tuplet eights rhythm (hemiols, polyrhythmic, all that stuff) making that straight 4/4 feel we occationally get. It is in B-minor, in phrygian.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on January 30, 2015, 07:37:26 PM
What time signature is this?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on January 30, 2015, 07:45:10 PM
Bb major, 12/8 time - borrows heavily from mixolydian mode and parallel minor (hence all the Ab's and Gb's)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on January 30, 2015, 07:50:51 PM
There might be some awkward language barrier stuff in this post:
It's in 12/8 or 6/8 or whatever you prefer but there's a lot of duplet eights being played over the underlying tuplet eights rhythm (hemiols, polyrhythmic, all that stuff) making that straight 4/4 feel we occationally get. It is in B-minor, in phrygian.
That makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on January 31, 2015, 02:45:04 PM
[YouTube video]
What time signature is this?
Bb major, 12/8 time - borrows heavily from mixolydian mode and parallel minor (hence all the Ab's and Gb's)
More presisely, the first part is in G-major, and then it goes to Bb-major. If they're not in it throughout the whole song, these two tonalities are at least borrowing from mixolydian by using the flattened 7th step of the scale in many places. Towards the end there appears alterations to this scale. But saying it borrows from its parallel minor isn't quite right; it's more about the chord progression allowing the use of the flattened 6th, 3rd and 7th steps of the scale in many places.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on February 01, 2015, 10:25:47 PM
You guys all are extremely helpful. However, I can't find the key signature of "Electrodrome" from Mario Kart 8. Can someone help me out?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 01, 2015, 10:56:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PESNXPACz2E
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 01, 2015, 11:16:06 PM
C-major and briefly A-major, both based on mixolydian. Beware of that cliche bVI bVII I progression that spawns a bunch of flattened 6th and 3rd steps of the tonic scale.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on February 02, 2015, 01:56:10 AM
Oh my goodness! Thank you so much! (And thank you, Mariolegofan, as well)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 02, 2015, 02:50:18 AM
This is just giving me problems. I can't tell if it's 6/8, 4/4 with triplets, or wtf it is.
And how should I notate the beginning? It modulates every measure.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on February 02, 2015, 02:59:03 AM
that thingy at the beginning is just a rit. if that's what you're talking about
I'd count it in 6/8 myself though
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 02, 2015, 04:54:31 AM
that thingy at the beginning is just a rit
Key signature, not time.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on February 02, 2015, 05:04:35 AM
This is just giving me problems. I can't tell if it's 6/8, 4/4 with triplets, or wtf it is.
And how should I notate the beginning? It modulates every measure.
am I the only one who thought he was talking about time sig
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 02, 2015, 08:08:17 AM
Progression:
F# | G# | A | B | C | D | Esus | E || and (you probably don't need me saying all this, but here comes a further analysis:) then on to the main part in A-major, which, like the last eternity of songs posted here, uses and borrows from that cliche bVI bVII I progression so beware of flattened 3rd, 6th and 7th steps.
Then it goes to D-major, then it goes to G-minor, then Bb-minor, then it repeats from the A-major part.
But the point is: the main part is in A-major, and that intro is pretty much just leading to that anyways, so you should notate it in A-major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 02, 2015, 02:17:07 PM
So it is 6/8?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on February 02, 2015, 02:22:22 PM
Key signature, not time.
make up your mind man ::)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 02, 2015, 04:39:26 PM
I'm Kind of embarrassed for still asking for keys.....
Is this one in F Minor?
I figured out a new way to find keys. I wanna see if its working :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQwp7zDeLlc
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 02, 2015, 04:50:53 PM
Pretty sure it's F harmonic minor
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 02, 2015, 04:52:21 PM
F-minor and C#-minor
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 02, 2015, 06:15:21 PM
F-minor and C#-minor
AND C# - minor?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 02, 2015, 06:23:58 PM
AND C# - minor?
It's Jompa. He's never wrong when it comes to Key sigs.

And is mine really 6/8?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 02, 2015, 08:53:14 PM
Thank you for your indirect compliment^.^
And is mine really 6/8?
Considering the eightnote tuplets will have such a big presence on the sheet it would definitely be the smartest to have it in 6/8. That is one reason at least.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 02, 2015, 09:14:17 PM
Thanks. And you're welcome.  :P

I just wanted to check before I arranged the entire piece in the wrong time sig.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 03, 2015, 04:25:22 AM
It's Jompa. He's never wrong when it comes to Key sigs.

Whoops, I didn't mean I thought it was wrong. Just wondering where it changes.....
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 11, 2015, 02:18:51 AM

Here's what I have so far (NOT FINAL):
[.mus] (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3yaktn8ctb8n00e/Open%20for%20Business%21.mus?dl=0)
I know it changes to G Major repeatedly (for the, idk, answer part of the main theme)
Is it in B flat instead of F?
I notated it in 2/4 because anything else just felt wrong.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on February 11, 2015, 02:39:52 AM
Actually, it's just in plain ol' A minor. The Bb's and F#s make a lot more sense in that context, plus the chromatic descent of the bass from m.14-17 starting at A gives it away (look up "lament bass").

Oh, and since m. 25 is derived from a DbM7 chord, you're gonna wanna spell the C# as Db and the G# as Ab.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 11, 2015, 03:20:53 AM
Well, that's what I had it in to start, if that counts for anything......

But, what about the time sig? That's the real reason I posted this.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on February 11, 2015, 03:54:23 AM
This song has the quirky aspect of having an irregular hypermeter. Written as 2/4 currently, you can see there is a 5-bar phrase, then a 4-bar phrase, followed by a 4 & 1/2 bar phrase, then 4, then 5 & 1/2, and then just more madness. It fits well with the idea of the song.
The problem with keeping it in 2/4 is that these overarching metric divisions aren't as immediately apparent as they could be, and we want to communicate this information to the player with the most efficiency as possible. The other problem is I don't have a lot of experience with this subject, so I'm not sure what to tell you from there. Maybe set a "standard" key signature like 4/4, and then accommodate the "hiccups" with a momentary 2/4, or a 5/4.
(For example, doing it this way, the beginning would have two 4/4 measures, then one 2/4, then three 4/4 measures, then a 5/4 measure, then three 4/4's , then a 7/4..... ugh....)
[Actually, look at old Renaissance music - think it has a lot of similar time irregularities {ex: "Fair Phyllis I saw sitting all alone"}]
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 11, 2015, 04:56:33 PM
The Bb's and F#s make a lot more sense in that context.
Those contexts are kinda like this:
As Bespin said; F# showing up in A-minor isn't all that big of a deal, and then there is descending bass too.
But the B-flats show up because it modulates to D-minor out in there.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 11, 2015, 05:19:50 PM
But where? The B flats pop up repeatedly. Is it worth notating as such?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 11, 2015, 05:38:50 PM
I'd say it starts being D-minor at like 00:20 when the marimba comes in there, but it's mainly at the next part it is easy to identify it as D-minor. I'd notate it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on February 12, 2015, 03:50:40 AM

Time/key signature? Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on February 12, 2015, 03:54:05 AM
Oreburgh City
C major, 4/4 time.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on February 12, 2015, 04:04:47 AM
Oreburgh City
C major, 4/4 time.

Thanks! C major was what I thought at first, but I'm just curious why there are so many accidentals. Here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7p5zle0k847www/Oreburgh%20City.mus?dl=1)'s a preliminary rough sketch. It's fine that way?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on February 12, 2015, 04:21:10 AM
You're going strong! Good luck with all the other parts ;) Remember that in 4/4, when you have a dotted quarter + dotted quarter + quarter, it should be written as dotted quarter + eighth-tied to quarter + quarter. This is to help show beat 3.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on February 12, 2015, 04:24:43 AM
You're going strong! Good luck with all the other parts ;) Remember that in 4/4, when you have a dotted quarter + dotted quarter + quarter, it should be written as dotted quarter + eighth-tied to quarter + quarter. This is to help show beat 3.

Alright, thanks for the help! You'll be seeing a more fleshed out version soon :D
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Saria on February 17, 2015, 03:02:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5quxFte-97o

Can someone help me find the time/key signature of this one?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on February 17, 2015, 03:58:20 AM
4/4 in E minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Saria on February 17, 2015, 04:03:32 AM
Thank you!!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 18, 2015, 05:16:26 PM
Two more. I'm not 100% sure I'm going to do these, but the time signatures are completely confusing me.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 18, 2015, 09:06:36 PM
The first one is in 3/4 all the way.
The second one is in 4/4, pretty much all the way, apart from in that part between 1:05 to 1:48, where there are like four or five 2/4-measures spread around.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 18, 2015, 09:12:15 PM
Wow. I was completely over thinking the first one.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 24, 2015, 08:59:21 PM
I know I'm completely overthinking this, but what is the RH rhythm for the first 2 measures?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on February 24, 2015, 10:57:18 PM
There's some very slight differences in the following measures, but this should give you the basic idea:

(http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h475/Bespinben/capture_zpsn6oalcq2.jpg) (http://s1111.photobucket.com/user/Bespinben/media/capture_zpsn6oalcq2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on February 25, 2015, 03:50:38 AM
Tempo seems right, but the notes don't exactly......
Anyway, thanks for the help.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on February 25, 2015, 03:54:01 AM
Of course the tempo is right - it's got your name on it!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 25, 2015, 04:28:04 PM
I guess the biggest problem for me regarding note beaming is where to put the rests. Like, how do you know whether in his for example to put an 8th note or a 16th note and 16th rest.....
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on February 26, 2015, 10:11:15 PM
AAAaaaaaactually, mlf, if you want to look theoretically at that sheet there, there is some questioinable choices bespin's made there. There is nothing wrong with the note beaming there, but the choices between eightnote vs sixteenth+sixteenth rest haven't resulted in the most perfect and most readable outcome - still though, nothing wrong with that notation. The "ideal" thing would be to only have the sixteenth rests that occur on the beats (to make the beats visible through the note-beaming (which it correctly is now btw)), and use eight notes instead (maybe with staccato).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 27, 2015, 12:08:19 AM
Yeah. I know HOW to use note beaming and the rules. I just wanted to know if using 16th - 16th rest or 8th and staccato mattered.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 27, 2015, 05:59:56 AM
I also have trouble with 3/4 note beaming. 4/4 is fairly simple.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on February 27, 2015, 06:04:01 AM
Beaming each beat separately is the safest bet.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 27, 2015, 06:05:19 AM
Separately? You mean like showing every beat in the measure?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on February 27, 2015, 06:06:11 AM
Yep, all 3 beats. (obviously excluding where the whole bar is a rest)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 27, 2015, 06:07:35 AM
Yep, all 3 beats. (obviously excluding where the whole bar is a rest)
I see. I'm arranging a pretty wild 3/4 song from Super Paper Mario that is a pain in the butt.....beaming-wise.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on February 27, 2015, 07:58:42 PM
So, I have a list...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t6jY6OCkek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw_J9pvUEME (this sounds like 2/8 or 4/8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7SrUYEKMOg
Thanks all!
Oh, btw... I only need time signatures. Key signatures are easy enough to figure out.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on February 27, 2015, 08:18:51 PM
Simple answer: 3/4 (6/8); 4/4; 4/4 (12/8)

Unabridged answer:
*Cave of Origins depends on how you want the beaming to look. I'd personally write it in 6/8 so that way the harp part would be written as 16ths (and so the measures aren't so short).
*Ancient Pokémon Battle just sounds like a standard 4/4 with syncopation
*Regi Trio is fun because you have to decide whether the triplets or the duplets form the basis of your key signature. There is certainly 4 beats per phrase, but the question is how you want to subdivide that. The rhythmic divisions are actually quite similar to my "Ragged Mountain" arrangement from Gates to Infinity in this respect. As such, I'd recommend writing this in 12/8. You would write out the bass ostinato as being syncopated against the beat (quarter, eighth-tied-eighth, eighth, eighth).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on February 27, 2015, 10:51:25 PM
Thanks for all the great advice, and thanks for finding those times!
I might start on these once I've finished one of my two current projects. Pokemon Lab from XD: Gale of darkness, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hp6ce_aBKc), is almost done, so I might try those out. Or I might stick to XD Music for now... Agh!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 27, 2015, 11:00:56 PM
12/8 - C Major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on February 27, 2015, 11:05:14 PM
I already am arranging it, I got it down @mariolegofan. Thanks though. And I have it as 6/8 that transitions into 8/8 (which I notate as common time for simplicities sake). Anyways.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 27, 2015, 11:06:05 PM
Ok!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on March 15, 2015, 02:19:31 AM
C minor in 4/4 time with a 1 beat pick-up
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Saria on March 15, 2015, 02:44:55 AM
Oh I deleted that post a second before you posted that because I changed my mind. I'm not gonna arrange it because I'm not experienced enough, but thanks anyway!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on April 04, 2015, 06:05:23 PM
Dont know where else to post this but where in finale our those line that point from left hand to right hand at or......?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on April 04, 2015, 06:06:38 PM
lol nvm. I found it. It's the line tool
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 25, 2015, 07:22:28 PM
I can't figure out for the life of me whether this should be ♩=45 or ♩=90.
And whether it changes when it swaps to 3/4 at 1:26
And wth is the key signature. It's something weird, all right.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on April 25, 2015, 08:25:50 PM
Wow!
That is one weird song. It feels like it's in D Minor (1 flat) throughout the beginning.
The time sig is another story. I Can't pinpoint it. It felt like 4/4 6/4 and even 6/8 at some spots. Idk :/
Tough song.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MaestroUGC on April 25, 2015, 08:36:37 PM
1 flat is D minor. F minor is 4 flats.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 25, 2015, 08:39:04 PM
I think he confused the relative major and minor.

Any second opinions?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on April 25, 2015, 08:47:41 PM
I think he confused the relative major and minor.
Whoops I was thinking D but my fingers put F
Sorry XD
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on April 25, 2015, 08:55:10 PM
The first part feels like 4/4 time or something similar before going to 3/4. After that, it sounds like 4/4 again.
I would notate the first part in D minor and the second part in F minor, adding those flats as accidentals. I have no idea what the key signature is when that organ comes in...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 25, 2015, 09:12:20 PM
My real question is, is it ♩=45 or ♩=90?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on April 25, 2015, 09:13:56 PM
My real question is, is it ♩=45 or ♩=90?
I'd go 90.....personally. But I don't think it really matters
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 25, 2015, 09:42:34 PM
I'd go 90.....personally. But I don't think it really matters
But then the quarter tied over the bar line feels really unnatural.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on April 25, 2015, 09:47:58 PM
You're right but 45 seems so slow
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 26, 2015, 12:31:37 AM
Any other opinions?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on April 26, 2015, 06:25:23 AM
I'm on my phone so I can't really offer anything remotely concrete, but have you considered a different time signature, such as 4/2 with minim = 45?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 26, 2015, 06:28:08 PM
Just to clear up, for the key signature:
It starts with that D-minor-thing. There is a feeling of phrygian here. It then goes to that C-minor-chord-thing, but the tonal center actually also changes to C-minor, where there also is a phrygian feel. I would not notate this key change because it happens again and again and only stay in one of the keys for short periods.
When the organ takes over (0:45) it is in Bb-minor.
Then it goes to Db-minor for those weird rhythm stuff, and then to Eb-minor over the same rhythm stuff, and then it goes of to some strange free-tonal-ish stuff, but that's basically there so it can land on that Eb-chord which leads to D-minor at the repeat.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 26, 2015, 07:27:28 PM
I'm on my phone so I can't really offer anything remotely concrete, but have you considered a different time signature, such as 4/2 with minim = 45?
That might actually work. PM me if you want to see what I have and go from there.

Lots of great stuff
As always, Jompa comes through again. Thanks so much.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 26, 2015, 08:01:36 PM
Double post, but wait, D flat minor? Is it supposed to be C# minor?
Or D minor?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 26, 2015, 08:11:41 PM
yeah, sorry, the key Db-minor isn't a thing.
But I'm starting to get confused here, and this might just be because this recorder flute I'm using is out of tune (and I am literally to lazy to walk downstairs to my keyboard, or even just to opn Finale), but is it just me or is this song actually a bit sharper than what we in the west would call "in tune"? If I'm right: that sure is something to think about! (though again; I'm too lazy to check)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 26, 2015, 08:45:02 PM
I don't think so. I remember that it was pretty much in tune with the keyboard I keep next to my desk. Anyway, I already did that part but I need to double check the chords. It was something seriously weird.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on April 27, 2015, 02:37:31 AM
Theoretical keys need love too D:
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on April 27, 2015, 05:22:54 AM
Theoretical keys need love too D:
I used spellings from Gb minor during a modulating section in my "Hazy Pass" 4-hands duet ;)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on April 27, 2015, 05:35:46 AM
<3 <3 <3
I used to write some compositions of mine in G# major as opposed to A flat.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on April 27, 2015, 05:40:43 AM
This is a cool page about theoretical keys
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_key
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: MaestroUGC on April 27, 2015, 05:54:09 AM
They're nice in theory, but otherwise impractical for any real use in music notation. At least with a 12 tone tuning system, which is all we will ever use for the most part.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 27, 2015, 12:57:09 PM
That still doesn't answer my question about what key the song is in when it goes into those crazy chords.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Arc of the Half-Moon on April 28, 2015, 03:01:56 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/C99cdxsUa0Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I am currently working on arrangements of the first two tracks of this video, "Operation Intrude N313" and "Theme of Tara." Since these will be my first submissions to this site, I thought I'd take this opportunity to learn some of the ropes. I already have the time signature down for both songs, but I 'm not nearly as certain about the key signature. I personally hear an E minor throughout both songs up until about 51 seconds into the video, although it may be constant throughout both songs and I'm just not able to detect it.

Since I'm pretty much a full-blown amateur, I thought it would be best to get some quick confirmation while also introducing myself to the community. Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 28, 2015, 06:27:16 PM
The first one is in E-minor.
The second one is also in E-minor. What you hear at 51 seconds in isn't a modulation - it lands at and F-tritone chord (which is the tritone of the dominant, so it makes sense) and switches between that and a F-powerchord, but the tonal center is still back at E-minor. However at 1:06 this gets more complex as it start switching between that F-tritonechord and Gb7(with no 3rd) (making F the tonal center), and then it swithces between F-powerchord and Gb-powerchord (with an even clearer F as tonal center), before awkwardly making its way back to E-minor for that last long part before repeat.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Arc of the Half-Moon on April 28, 2015, 08:08:25 PM
The first one is in E-minor.
The second one is also in E-minor. What you hear at 51 seconds in isn't a modulation - it lands at and F-tritone chord (which is the tritone of the dominant, so it makes sense) and switches between that and a F-powerchord, but the tonal center is still back at E-minor. However at 1:06 this gets more complex as it start switching between that F-tritonechord and Gb7(with no 3rd) (making F the tonal center), and then it swithces between F-powerchord and Gb-powerchord (with an even clearer F as tonal center), before awkwardly making its way back to E-minor for that last long part before repeat.

Wow! Well, now I'm really feeling bad about not having a legit piano lesson since half my life ago, because I have absolutely no idea how to make that look pretty on paper. Like I said: full-blown amateur. I can jot the notes down like nothing else because my brain is weird like that, but I think I just barely understood half of what you just told me.

Any chance you could help me learn what I need to do now that I have this information?

EDIT: Nevermind, looked it up. Thanks, by the way. I came here hoping to learn, and I wouldn't be doing that if I weren't getting so much helpful advice.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 29, 2015, 08:03:48 PM
I still haven't gotten a definitive answer on what key it should be in at 1:26. (M 17)
Here's what I have stuck in C#m for some reason:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bn9nhbcgcx5h46a/Chaos.mus?dl=0
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on April 30, 2015, 05:59:54 PM
It's C-minor (phrygian) there, just like the next part is Eb-minor (phrygian) - the reason I said Db was because my recorder had it's head pulled out from the body a bit, so it was more than a quarter tone low.
Tip for the part in Eb-minor: use F-flats instead of E-naturals, to get correct harmonic functions! And I'd suggest E-doubleflats for the D-naturals, both for having the chord steps correct, but also so that you don't have stuff like both Db and D, or Eb and E in the same chords - it gets confusing to read. So in the C-minor part you should use C-flats for those B-naturals when you change the key sig.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on April 30, 2015, 07:13:30 PM
Alright, thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on May 02, 2015, 12:13:47 AM
Sorry for the late input on this but I'd definitely go with 4/4 at 90 bpm on chaos, mael. Feels much more natural to me than counting it at 45 bpm, plus having sixteenth note syncopations at 0:43 would be especially difficult, I think. There's also that sixteenth note echo/whatever effect near the beginning, which really shouldn't feel like 32nd notes imo.

As for 4/4 vs 4/2, it's kind of inconsequential in the very beginning (syncopation with tied over notes in 4/4 is perfectly fine), but 4/2 isn't really as appropriate once you get to 0:43, as the percussion background would divide it into two equal halves + generally indicate a quarter note pulse, and while that's not necessarily going to be notated in your arrangement, I still wouldn't feel it all as a single bar. Also, since the next section is clearly in 3/4, and there doesn't really seem to be a difference in pulse from the previous section, it makes more sense to me to just keep the pulse as a quarter note throughout.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on May 02, 2015, 02:01:33 AM
I've just arranged this song but i'm not certain about the time signatures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvKsv0vvBVw


The first part, In the very beginning, is it 4/4 or 2/2, or something else?
The second part(0.14), is it 4/4 in the first three measures, or is it 5/4+3/4+4/4, or something else??
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Arc of the Half-Moon on May 02, 2015, 10:54:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/embed/t4SHQSSeib4

Okay. So remember how I said I had the time signature all figured out for this song? Well, I thought I did, but now I'm not so sure.

The only issue I have is with the very beginning (the first 39 seconds). Keeping it in 4/4 time looks good on paper, but when I count it out in my head it sounds all kinds of weird. The only psychologically pleasing pattern I've come up with so far is going back and forth between 2/4 and 6/4 times, but that can't possibly be right, can it?

Could really use a second opinion here.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on May 03, 2015, 12:33:17 AM
4/4 is fine. The emphasis on beats one and two can throw off your sense or rhythm (along with the lack of drum/bass beat during those beats), but rhythmically it's all in 4/4. It's just really-weirdly-composed 4/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on May 03, 2015, 12:34:30 AM
8/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Arc of the Half-Moon on May 03, 2015, 12:49:20 AM
Thank you. I think I finally have enough done right that I can submit this thing without being told I have to fix, well, everything. Expect it on the site within the hour.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on May 03, 2015, 12:51:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/embed/t4SHQSSeib4

Okay. So remember how I said I had the time signature all figured out for this song? Well, I thought I did, but now I'm not so sure.

The only issue I have is with the very beginning (the first 39 seconds). Keeping it in 4/4 time looks good on paper, but when I count it out in my head it sounds all kinds of weird. The only psychologically pleasing pattern I've come up with so far is going back and forth between 2/4 and 6/4 times, but that can't possibly be right, can it?

Could really use a second opinion here.

I'm pretty sure it's a slow 4/4, with 8ths subdivision in the bass.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on May 03, 2015, 05:55:31 PM
SO.....could someone tell me about modes? I've been taking a lot of theory intake lately and would like to know what modes are and how they function.

I know key sig very well. I have a trick
For sharps I remember this phrase:
F, C, G, D, A, E, B = Fat Cats Go Down Alleys Eating Bacon
For Flats:
B, E, A, D, G, C, F = B, E, A, D, Game Cube Fan
Haha.....it might be silly.....but that's how I remember them :P
And if I know these, I can easily figure out the key sig.
C Major, G Major, D Major, A Major, E Major, B Major, F# Major, and C # Major.
(For minor you go down 3 half steps for example C Major = A Minor)

So, what are modes?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on May 03, 2015, 07:03:58 PM
Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian
Locrian

They represent an octave played using only the white keys, Ionian is C, Dorian is D, Phrygian is E, Lydian is F, Mixolydian is G, Aeolian is A, and Locrian is B.  Locrian is illegal to use because it has 2 half steps in it's pentascale, which means it's demonic of origin.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on May 03, 2015, 07:54:08 PM
I'm gonna type a more, er, detailed explanation than that once I get to a computer lol
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on May 03, 2015, 07:59:05 PM
he didn't want them explained he just wanted to know what they were
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on May 03, 2015, 07:59:28 PM
Ionian
Dorian
Phrygian
Lydian
Mixolydian
Aeolian
Locrian

They represent an octave played using only the white keys, Ionian is C, Dorian is D, Phrygian is E, Lydian is F, Mixolydian is G, Aeolian is A, and Locrian is B.  Locrian is illegal to use because it has 2 half steps in it's pentascale, which means it's demonic of origin.

Locrian is illegal, hmm what happens if use it? Will the police come and arrest me?? ^^
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on May 03, 2015, 08:43:48 PM
worse, the catholics come and arrest you
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Arc of the Half-Moon on May 03, 2015, 08:59:06 PM
worse, the catholics come and arrest you

Not if I use my piano to summon Baphomet before they get here, they can't!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 03, 2015, 09:30:26 PM
he didn't want them explained he just wanted to know what they were
That's an even better reason for someone else to write another explanation.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on May 03, 2015, 10:43:32 PM
Alright, at a computer. Now let me clarify why that needs a little elaboration haha

They represent an octave played using only the white keys, Ionian is starting and centered on C, Dorian is starting and centered on D, Phrygian is starting and centered on E, etc.

So not including that fix above, which is kinda necessary when explaining to somebody entirely new to modes, there are a few things:
-What you described are only the "church modes" (though that term can also be applied to Gregorian modes apparently, who knew); there are countless other modes that exist, though those are the main ones of concern.
-That doesn't really describe what modes are, only how to play them in C. The way you stated it also implies that they're only ever using natural notes, which I'm sure you know isn't true. So don't oversimplify.

So, here's my explanation of modes:

long af
A mode is very much like a scale; the distinction between the two is pretty arbitrary, and people will generally understand you whether you say "dorian mode" or "dorian scale". Some modes are literally called scales. The whole tone scale, for example, is called a mode. So, really, just think of modes as types of scales for now.

The church modes (which as I look more into it it's starting to seem as if the name isn't wholly agreed upon) are essentially like Nocturne said. The major scale is known as Ionian, and you can find the other six related church modes by starting on a different note of the scale. So, I'm just going to write out the original scale in two octaves and shift over the bold to show where (one octave of) the scale lies within the C major scale.

C Ionian, starting on the first pitch of the major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
D Dorian, starting on the second pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
E Phrygian, starting on the third pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
F Lydian, starting on the fourth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
G Mixolydian, starting on the fifth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
A Aeolian (natural minor), starting on the sixth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
B Locrian, starting on the seventh pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C

However, this approach isn't really so useful for understanding modes as it is for playing them on a piano. As one of my professors described it, it ascribes a "C-centric" (or whatever pitch is the tonic of the Ionian mode) quality to them that doesn't exist. The modes themselves have their own centers in their scales' starting pitches. So, here's another way to think of it, based on the C Major scale (C D E F G A B C) and C natural minor scale (C D Eb F G Ab Bb C), with altered pitches in bold:

-Lydian is like a major scale with a raised fourth. (C D E F# G A B C).
-Ionian is a major scale.
-Mixolydian is like a major scale with a lowered seventh (C Mixolydian = C D E F G A Bb C).
-Dorian is like a natural minor scale with the sixth raised (C D Eb F G A Bb C), or a major scale with the third and seventh lowered (C D Eb F G A Bb C).
-Aeolian is like a natural minor scale, or a major scale with the third, sixth, and seventh lowered (C D Eb F G Ab Bb C).
-Phrygian is like a natural minor scale with the second lowered (C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C), or a major scale with the second, third, sixth, and seventh lowered (C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C).
-Locrian is like a natural minor scale with the second and fifth lowered (C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C), or a major scale with the second, third, fifth, sixth, and seventh lowered (C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C).

The first three (Lydian, Ionian, Mixolydian) are considered to be major modes, as the triad starting on the root of each is a major triad (C E G).
Similarly, the next three (Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian) are considered to be minor modes, as the triad starting on the root of each is a minor triad (C Eb G).
Locrian isn't really considered to be either, as the triad starting on its root would be diminished (C Eb Gb).
The only reason I really included how to get to the minor modes based on the major scale is because it ties into a way of ordering the modes, and that's by the amount of notes lowered (or raised); this is the way I used to order them in that list. Though not every scale will necessarily use sharps or flats in this manner (for example, these modes based on F# ionian would never have any flats), I'm just going to use b and # to indicate whether a note is lowered or raised from the major scale.

Lydian: #4
Ionian: N/A
Mixolydian: b7
Dorian: b3, b7
Aeolian: b3, b6, b7
Phrygian: b2, b3, b6, b7
Locrian: b2, b3, b5, b6, b7

So, as you can see, the altered pitches are sort of cumulative, ranging from Lydian as the "most raised", and Locrian as the "most lowered".

Locrian isn't really illegal so much as not really used as the main mode of many pieces, as it is extremely difficult to establish a tonal center with it. Because of the b5, as mentioned earlier, there is no major or minor "tonic chord" to come back to, nor is there really the possibility of a diatonic (meaning its notes are part of the scale) chord with dominant (meaning it leads back to the tonic) function.

My last bit on the church modes (Jompa I know you're going to disagree with me on this lol):
For key signatures, it's generally accepted if you write the closest major or minor key signature (i.e. C major for C lydian, ionian, or mixolydian, and C minor for C dorian, aeolian, phrygian, or locrian), and just use accidentals for the altered pitches. However, according to literally every theory textbook or professor I've ever consulted, as well as several examples in unrelated classes, it's also perfectly acceptable to just write down the number of sharps or flats in the mode, i.e. 4 flats for C phrygian.

And then one tidbit on other modes:
There are other modes than these. For example, modes based on the harmonic minor scale, or Messiaen's modes of limited transposition (whole tone, octatonic, and then some more theoretical stuff that doesn't get used as often). You don't necessarily have to know them, but know that there are more than just 7, haha.
[close]
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on May 03, 2015, 11:08:52 PM
Alright, at a computer. Now let me clarify why that needs a little elaboration haha

So not including that fix above, which is kinda necessary when explaining to somebody entirely new to modes, there are a few things:
-What you described are only the "church modes" (though that term can also be applied to Gregorian modes apparently, who knew); there are countless other modes that exist, though those are the main ones of concern.
-That doesn't really describe what modes are, only how to play them in C. The way you stated it also implies that they're only ever using natural notes, which I'm sure you know isn't true. So don't oversimplify.

So, here's my explanation of modes:

long af
A mode is very much like a scale; the distinction between the two is pretty arbitrary, and people will generally understand you whether you say "dorian mode" or "dorian scale". Some modes are literally called scales. The whole tone scale, for example, is called a mode. So, really, just think of modes as types of scales for now.

The church modes (which as I look more into it it's starting to seem as if the name isn't wholly agreed upon) are essentially like Nocturne said. The major scale is known as Ionian, and you can find the other six related church modes by starting on a different note of the scale. So, I'm just going to write out the original scale in two octaves and shift over the bold to show where (one octave of) the scale lies within the C major scale.

C Ionian, starting on the first pitch of the major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
D Dorian, starting on the second pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
E Phrygian, starting on the third pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
F Lydian, starting on the fourth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
G Mixolydian, starting on the fifth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
A Aeolian (natural minor), starting on the sixth pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
B Locrian, starting on the seventh pitch of the C major scale:
C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C

However, this approach isn't really so useful for understanding modes as it is for playing them on a piano. As one of my professors described it, it ascribes a "C-centric" (or whatever pitch is the tonic of the Ionian mode) quality to them that doesn't exist. The modes themselves have their own centers in their scales' starting pitches. So, here's another way to think of it, based on the C Major scale (C D E F G A B C) and C natural minor scale (C D Eb F G Ab Bb C), with altered pitches in bold:

-Lydian is like a major scale with a raised fourth. (C D E F# G A B C).
-Ionian is a major scale.
-Mixolydian is like a major scale with a lowered seventh (C Mixolydian = C D E F G A Bb C).
-Dorian is like a natural minor scale with the sixth raised (C D Eb F G A Bb C), or a major scale with the third and seventh lowered (C D Eb F G A Bb C).
-Aeolian is like a natural minor scale, or a major scale with the third, sixth, and seventh lowered (C D Eb F G Ab Bb C).
-Phrygian is like a natural minor scale with the second lowered (C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C), or a major scale with the second, third, sixth, and seventh lowered (C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C).
-Locrian is like a natural minor scale with the second and fifth lowered (C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C), or a major scale with the second, third, fifth, sixth, and seventh lowered (C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C).

The first three (Lydian, Ionian, Mixolydian) are considered to be major modes, as the triad starting on the root of each is a major triad (C E G).
Similarly, the next three (Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian) are considered to be minor modes, as the triad starting on the root of each is a minor triad (C Eb G).
Locrian isn't really considered to be either, as the triad starting on its root would be diminished (C Eb Gb).
The only reason I really included how to get to the minor modes based on the major scale is because it ties into a way of ordering the modes, and that's by the amount of notes lowered (or raised); this is the way I used to order them in that list. Though not every scale will necessarily use sharps or flats in this manner (for example, these modes based on F# ionian would never have any flats), I'm just going to use b and # to indicate whether a note is lowered or raised from the major scale.

Lydian: #4
Ionian: N/A
Mixolydian: b7
Dorian: b3, b7
Aeolian: b3, b6, b7
Phrygian: b2, b3, b6, b7
Locrian: b2, b3, b5, b6, b7

So, as you can see, the altered pitches are sort of cumulative, ranging from Lydian as the "most raised", and Locrian as the "most lowered".

Locrian isn't really illegal so much as not really used as the main mode of many pieces, as it is extremely difficult to establish a tonal center with it. Because of the b5, as mentioned earlier, there is no major or minor "tonic chord" to come back to, nor is there really the possibility of a diatonic (meaning its notes are part of the scale) chord with dominant (meaning it leads back to the tonic) function.

My last bit on the church modes (Jompa I know you're going to disagree with me on this lol):
For key signatures, it's generally accepted if you write the closest major or minor key signature (i.e. C major for C lydian, ionian, or mixolydian, and C minor for C dorian, aeolian, phrygian, or locrian), and just use accidentals for the altered pitches. However, according to literally every theory textbook or professor I've ever consulted, as well as several examples in unrelated classes, it's also perfectly acceptable to just write down the number of sharps or flats in the mode, i.e. 4 flats for C phrygian.

And then one tidbit on other modes:
There are other modes than these. For example, modes based on the harmonic minor scale, or Messiaen's modes of limited transposition (whole tone, octatonic, and then some more theoretical stuff that doesn't get used as often). You don't necessarily have to know them, but know that there are more than just 7, haha.
[close]
Thank you so much! That helps so much! Wanna be my theory instructor? ;)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 03, 2015, 11:57:05 PM
Quote
Jompa I know you're going to disagree with me on this lol
However, according to literally every theory textbook or professor I've ever consulted, as well as several examples in unrelated classes, it's also perfectly acceptable to just write down the number of sharps or flats in the mode, i.e. 4 flats for C phrygian.
Nonono. I would disagree if you didn't know what you're talking about (because I believe that for newbies it is a damaging way of thinking), but if one has a reflecting mind (which is not the case in literally every case (except here with you(!))) they should do what they want.
Though it should be noted that what's most commonly accepted as correct is to do the "tonic+is it minor or major?"-thing, and I strongly support it for the fact that if anyone's gonna benefit theroy- and harmony-wise from the sheet, it is literally 10 times better to have something written in what the tonic dictates.
There's also a lot of circumstancial stuff that supports this (like how often something isn't strictly inside a modes boundries through a whole song, which makes it really silly to start having accidentals for those kinds of notes), but if one knows what's going on and just wanna make a sheet playable, then I think it's fine. Not sure if I think the site's rules should allow it though, but THAT is just me.

The point of modes:
A starting point for where a piece's tonality is comming from (very much like how a song is either "minor" or "major").
Pretty much consists of a set bunch of notes that will be used to define this.
So they're kinda like keys, both notationwise and listeningwise (like an undercategory).
Basically, using modes in music is just a way to variate the tonal language from the usual major/minor (though one can hardly call it "variation" anymote), and one is free to use modality in whatever degree they want (if it's like one measure in a song, or the entire song, or switching between like eight modes).
It's actually really easy to hear what mode a piece is in (even the more crazy modes) if one starts to pay attention to them and learn their cliches.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on May 04, 2015, 02:15:24 AM
you guys can go ahead and talk about them all you want I'll just play and write with em
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 04, 2015, 06:09:52 PM
Well if you're gonna do that, this:
Quote
They represent an octave played using only the white keys
is not nearly good enough knowledge required to do so (actually it's not even correct, in more ways than one).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on May 06, 2015, 04:17:31 PM
Need some help! This song confuses me, don't know what tempo and time signatures it's in. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIErOhorUQE
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on May 06, 2015, 06:17:32 PM
It sounds like 4/4 or 12/8 (since there are so many triplets)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on May 06, 2015, 06:23:00 PM
sounds like it might have a couple of cadenzas or it switches to like 3/4 occasionally, but for the most part it sounds 4/4 to me
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on May 06, 2015, 06:49:35 PM
4/4, I think..
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 06, 2015, 09:05:20 PM
I'd write it in 12/8, having duplets for where there are straight eights.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on May 07, 2015, 03:15:12 PM
Ok so I sorted out the time signature problem by doing as Jompa said: writing it in 12/8 with duplets. However I have a small problem at the end of the song:
Around 0:20 there are some fast notes, and I don't know the note value of them, given that the previous notes were 16th notes(in 12/8 ofc.). They seem like a 16th quatruplet with 4 64th notes and one long punctuated 8th at the end, but I'm not sure. What do you guys think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIErOhorUQE
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 07, 2015, 08:51:38 PM
You should definitely just do a trill between those two notes before it lands at that echoing note (the echoing is in duplet eights, if you're going to include that).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on May 07, 2015, 09:02:37 PM
well I just made as I said: quatruplets with four 64th notes+dotted 8th. And then I made the echo in the left hand clef. Looks ok I think. Here it is:[ZIP] (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Zelda%20Oracle%20of%20Season%20%26%20Ages/Knowledge%20of%20the%20Maku%20Trees.zip)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on May 09, 2015, 04:27:29 AM

2/4 or 4/4?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on May 09, 2015, 05:59:45 AM
Definitely 4/4 with approx. 100 quarters per minute
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on May 09, 2015, 12:07:46 PM
I think it's a 4/4. Don't know however if it's a slow q≈50, or a fast q≈100.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 09, 2015, 12:54:15 PM
Both kinda work, but I'd do 4/4.
In any case, it's definitely not a q=50. q=100
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on May 09, 2015, 02:50:53 PM
I also think 2/2 could work.....
It reminds me of a song I did once.....which was in 2/2.
4/4 works too! :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on May 10, 2015, 03:17:49 AM
Ok, thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on May 10, 2015, 05:22:30 PM
I've finished arranging this song but I don't know what tempo is most appropriate. Q approx 100, or a faster Q approx 200??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdFrlm-1U1k
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on May 10, 2015, 07:15:41 PM
Approx 100 for sure.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on May 18, 2015, 05:23:12 PM
I'm having some trouble with the timing in this one.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 18, 2015, 05:29:05 PM
4/4 swing
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on May 30, 2015, 09:05:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnCof15XO6Y

This one is giving me a bit of trouble. First off, should I notate the beginning in 12/8 or 4/4 swing? And secondly, the tempo is right at 131 BPM in the beginning section for a dotted quarter if notated in 12/8 or a quarter note in 4/4 with swing. However, at 0:21, it turns into 6/8. This poses a problem: if I notate the part after 0:21 in 6/8, then I can't put in the precise tempo because 131 is odd. Any help? I want to keep the tempo consistent yet precise.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on May 30, 2015, 09:27:03 PM
Definitely not 4/4 swing. It's pretty rare to see swing without at least some reference to other jazz conventions, and this piece really has none. Also, if you already know it's going to be in a compound time (i.e. 6/8) later in the piece, it's pretty strange not to start that way, too, if that notation would work (not to mention, background strings start playing what would be triplet figures in 4/4 before then, anyways, so compound meter makes much more sense throughout). Though there's really nothing stopping you from putting the whole thing in 6/8; the difference between 12/8 and 6/8 in terms of accent patterns are even more subtle than those between 4/4 and 2/4. The reason 6/8 is more obvious for the second part is because the syncopation of the latter half of 12/8 would be much more awkward, but 6/8 still works just as well in the beginning.

TL;DR for the sake of cohesion and simplicity, I'd say go 6/8 the whole time.

As for tempo, I'm actually pretty confused as to your problem. Typically I round to an even number just for simplicity and because veeeeery few people would actually notice a 1bpm difference in tempo. But it doesn't seem like that's the issue you have with it; it sounds to me as if you think an original tempo of 131 wouldn't hold because of some change in pulse that would require a division of the tempo, but there is no change in pulse. Even if you started off in 4/4, (quarter = 131) would still carry over as (dotted quarter = 131).

As with most of my advice concerning metric notation, this can all be simplified down to this:
Y'all think too much. Occam's razor, yo.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 30, 2015, 09:55:46 PM
In any case, it would be preferable if the tempo marking actually is a marking on a metronome! For many actual physical metronomes not every single number of bpm are options. For the slow tempo marks it can sometimes be every ten or twenty, while the medium and faster ones usually differ by 4. So if you use a marking that's on metronomes that'd probably solve your problem. A couple of bpm doesn't make any difference for the listener anyways, and no one will even play it exactly as that in the first place.

Also, I'd personally put 12/8 instead of 6/8.

EDIT: And btw: It doesn't change time signature at 0:21, it's the same as it's been up to now.

EDIT AGAIN: And the tempo isn't changing either.... so dotten quarter=131 is still correct here.. EDIT AGAIN: (which is what Fierce is saying..)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on May 30, 2015, 10:05:44 PM
The problem is, using either 12/8 or 6/8 for the entire piece doesn't really cut it. While technically having the same tempo in terms of the notes themselves, the first section in 12/8 is not identical to the second section's 6/8. Should I keep it all in 12/8 with the same tempo, then the second section would be expressing 6/8 measures in 12/8. I can't really explain it that well, but I wouldn't use the same time signature and tempo combination for both of them.

EDIT: @Fierce, if I were to use 6/8, then yes both parts can accommodate 6/8, but one technically has a compound meter twice as fast. Therefore, I'd either have to change the time signature, the tempo, or just have one section just be notated in a different time signature, which makes it awkward.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 30, 2015, 10:19:54 PM
But it is the same throughout!! 12/8 q=131 all the way is completely correct! 6/8 q=131 all the way would also work! Those two sections of the song aren't different in terms of time or compound meter at all!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on May 30, 2015, 11:13:43 PM
I'll provide my arrangement so far to show this.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/61plufhfrrf2d47/Reaper%20Fortress.musx?dl=0&s=sl

As you can see, up to m11 everything is in the first section, arranged how it should be. Afterwards, while my issue is noticeable in the left hand, it's much more prominent in the right. Take a look at measures 15, 16, 19, and 20. The last three notes of each measure are forced to cross between the strong beats in 12/8 when in reality they are actually on the last three beats of a standard 6/8 measure. I hope this explains the problem.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on May 31, 2015, 12:13:06 AM
I'd say it's fine to change time signatures even thou they are both compound, because the two themes have such a different character. The first part has somewhat of "march feel", you could even write it in 4/4 or 2/2 with triads. But at measure 11, it get's a different more flowy feel, and more broad phrases. You could also alter between those depending on the theme, because later the first theme comes back from times to times.
I'd say either 4/4 or 12/8 in the first, and 6/8 in the second, that way so make a clear distinction of the two.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on May 31, 2015, 12:38:54 AM
Now that I think about it more, I think maybe it would be better to keep everything in one consistent time signature even if it does mess up the notation a bit, because the two themes end up playing simultaneously at one point. Thanks for the opinions.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on May 31, 2015, 12:41:04 AM
The last three notes of each measure are forced to cross between the strong beats in 12/8 when in
reality they are actually on the last three beats of a standard 6/8 measure.

But that's kinda not true. What you've written in the arrangement is correct after what I'm saying. The pulse of the song is still 12/8 q=131. Just the fact that it goes over the beats doesn't mean it is experienced as a difference time signature. This exact example isn't even uncommon!

EDIT: oh, you replied first.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on May 31, 2015, 07:57:16 AM
For the sake of apathy, and because Jompa pretty much covered it:

syncopation ≠ different time signature (or tempo)

Like, I can't even open your file (finale 2011, yo), but it's very apparent that's where your confusion lies. The reason I'd advocate 6/8 throughout as opposed to 12/8 is because in 6/8, the three-quarter-note syncopation falls on every second measure after 0:21, as opposed to the second half of every bar in 12/8, which I think is less clean. But it's really not that consequential; again, the differences between 6/8 and 12/8 are especially subtle. But either in q. = 131 (or probably 132, because as Jompa pointed out, multiples of four are typically better for metronomes) would be significantly better than 6/8 at half of the tempo (and even if you were to divide the beats that way, 3/4 at the same eighth note speed as q. = 131 would still be better, because at least every other measure would fit that beat subdivision).

Like, I'm glad that you're doing it all in 6/8 now, but to teach you how to catch fish as opposed to simply giving you one, so to speak, I want to reiterate:
Syncopations are common, and are generally much easier to fit into a common time signature than you might think.
Y'all think too much. Occam's razor, yo.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on June 10, 2015, 11:23:41 PM
On the topic of syncopation...


I've got 5/4 switching to 4/4 at the 0:11 mark but I can't help but feel I've got the rhythm completely off. It just sounds wrong.
MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3j6nv5u1h7h2hs/Donkey%20Kong.mus?dl=0)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on June 11, 2015, 12:03:25 AM
On the topic of syncopation...


I've got 5/4 switching to 4/4 at the 0:11 mark but I can't help but feel I've got the rhythm completely off. It just sounds wrong.
MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3j6nv5u1h7h2hs/Donkey%20Kong.mus?dl=0)


I think the problem might be that you got a wrong quintuple time signature. Try using 5/8 instead of 5/4, and the 4/4 as 4/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on June 11, 2015, 12:10:01 AM
Maybe that would help. It's like the sixteenth notes in the bass are too slow, but too fast if I decrease the note value.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on June 11, 2015, 01:13:57 AM
Nonononono, it's definitely 5/4. Double the note values and the tempo, put it in swing.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on June 11, 2015, 02:49:10 AM
Oh wow, thanks! That explains a lot.
Like this? (https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3j6nv5u1h7h2hs/Donkey%20Kong.mus?dl=0)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on June 15, 2015, 10:26:45 PM
I need help with rhythm of the melody in this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9SWsTx5R4w

here's my file: [ZIP] (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203%20Only%20The%20Night%20Sky%20Knows.zip)
I only need help with measures 2 and 4, those are the measures I'm not certain about.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on June 15, 2015, 10:31:46 PM
Key Sig
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Echo on June 15, 2015, 11:14:59 PM
I need help with rhythm of the melody in this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9SWsTx5R4w

here's my file: [ZIP] (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203%20Only%20The%20Night%20Sky%20Knows.zip)
I only need help with measures 2 and 4, those are the measures I'm not certain about.

Here's what I've got for just measures 2 and 4 changed: MUS (https://db.tt/3tZpC4HQ)

But I disagreed with some other things, so here's a sheet with some other changes: MUS (https://db.tt/7yRW4gmK)

Changed measures 5-7, and 12, so you can compare and contrast. Measure 12 I fixed up a rhythm, and in measure 5 I extended the length of the last note. Measure 6 is up in the air on whether you want to emulate how she sings the first word. The grace notes I removed because I just didn't hear those pitches in the song, but if you're sure on them, put them back in I guess. Measure 11 could be re-written to just be a grace note 'F' into 'G' I think.

Also, "The" shouldn't be capitalized. I'm not sure about whether "Arms" should be "ARMs" either, since that's what it's called in-game, but I've seen the game referred to as both, so I dunno.

Key Sig

I thought I did this one already, but I can't find it. If I recall correctly though, it starts in 5 flats.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on June 15, 2015, 11:55:34 PM
Thanks for the advices Echo :). What you did with the rhythm in measure 2 and 4, was what I started with, but I later changed it. I feel like the second note is longer than fourth note, so that's why I changed it, but later the notes in the 3rd and 4th beat, I think is correct as you'd done, with the F# at the last 16th, rather than on beat.

The ornamentation I've used, were somewhat what I think sounded good on piano with respect to the original song taken, but not necessary the "exact notes and pitch shifts" in the song. I will see later on when the song is complete what I'll do about them.   
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Echo on June 16, 2015, 12:05:17 AM
Yeah, I saw what you were going for, and I think it's a neat approach. Can't wait to see the finished piece, and good luck!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on June 21, 2015, 01:20:44 AM
Since I'm going to try and arrange this,
I got the time sig as 4/4, but the key seems to elude me.. maybe F major?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on June 21, 2015, 01:50:09 AM
You're correct. F Major
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on June 21, 2015, 01:52:16 AM
You're correct. F Major
Cool, thanks. The first 15 seconds or so is hard to tell the time signature, but I'm just going to write it in 4/4 for now.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on June 21, 2015, 04:18:35 AM
The first part seems to be based on G major. It appears to do a few nice modulations before landing in F major for the rest of it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on June 21, 2015, 04:20:47 AM
The first part seems to be based on G major. It appears to do a few nice modulations before landing in F major for the rest of it.
I was getting that vibe too
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on June 21, 2015, 04:45:35 AM
I was getting that vibe too
As was I when I started arranging it. It's fun to arrange because now I'm also learning directly how compositions are structured
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on June 22, 2015, 02:08:52 PM
It begins in G-major, then goes to C-major, then there is a small part in Eb-major, before a long-lasting dominant chord to F-marjo appears (in other words: it's F-major here), and then it lands in F-major at about the halfway point of the song and stays there all the way through.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on June 22, 2015, 07:48:42 PM
It begins in G-major, then goes to C-major, then there is a small part in Eb-major, before a long-lasting dominant chord to F-marjo appears (in other words: it's F-major here), and then it lands in F-major at about the halfway point of the song and stays there all the way through.
Agreed. I notated it as B flat for my purposes, but I may well change it anyways (it goes on long enough to mandate a key sig change IMO)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on June 28, 2015, 04:50:38 PM
I suck at hearing chords, and I need to know the chords for this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9SWsTx5R4w

Would be really nice if anyone helped me out, or even just a part of the song.

Edit: Here's a version (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203%20Only%20The%20Night%20Sky%20Knows.zip) of what I guess that the chords are. But I'm far from sure. Also, don't mind the melody or that the LH only consists of bass notes, I'll finish this once I have the chords down.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on June 28, 2015, 09:19:27 PM
^ You seem pretty accurate with the chords. I could be wrong though, I'm a newbie arranger.
This feels like cut time or common time (equivalent time sigs anyways, I can always change it later if one turns out to be "better" for notation than the other) and C minor. Though with that e blues riff that was in Pyrite building, too..
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on June 28, 2015, 09:35:13 PM
I'd say common time, the percussion makes it feel like a 4/4 to me. 
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on June 28, 2015, 09:40:21 PM
Yeah, I'd agree.
Many thanks~
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on June 29, 2015, 12:25:49 AM
@Tobbeh99

It's mostly not wrong, but some chords are wrong:
In measure#8: the chords are not B - E, it's Bm7 - Dmaj/E.
In measure#9: it's not just an F#m, it's F#sus - F#m.
In measure#12: the chords are not B - E, it's Bm7 - Gmaj (and the bass tone is a G).
In measure#13: it's not F#sus - F#m, it's just a measure-long F#sus. In the next measure (#14) this is resolved into a F# (not F#m).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on June 29, 2015, 12:34:57 AM
Oh, thanks a lot Jompa! :) Now I'll continue with finishing the song. :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on July 03, 2015, 06:41:14 AM
Going to bed now, maybe I'll think of what it is in the morning.
The second theme seems to be in B major, though I could be wrong about.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on July 03, 2015, 05:29:55 PM
G Minor for the first 30 or so seconds and I think it changes to G Major or C Major.....
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 03, 2015, 11:54:54 PM
Starts in C-minor (pedal basstone G, but C is the tonal center), mostly dorian-based, and starts being major right before that part that loops forever. After that it's kinda C-major (mixolydian) all the way, just with some funny harmony here and there.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on July 03, 2015, 11:58:20 PM
I was wondering which blasted mode that was.
Many thanks. I'll probably just keep the key sig as C minor for now, may mess with it before I submit it though.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on July 06, 2015, 04:28:28 AM
Time signature?? Part of me wants to say 5/4 but that doesn't always seem to work.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on July 06, 2015, 04:42:28 AM
It sounds like 6/4 at the beginning and might change to 4/4 then later on
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on July 06, 2015, 05:52:40 AM
I get 3 measures of 6/4 then one measure of 5/4, then another 3 measures of 6/4 and another measure of 5/4. You could write the rest as 4/4, there's just quite a bit of syncopation.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on July 06, 2015, 06:25:02 AM
When in doubt, look at the sheet!

Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red/Blue Rescue Team

Stormy Sea -  [Original ZIP] (http://marioandluigi.wikidot.com/local--files/forum:thread/StormySea.zip)  [Two Piano ZIP] (http://marioandluigi.wikidot.com/local--files/forum:thread/StormySeaDuet.zip)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on July 06, 2015, 01:47:34 PM
Somehow I missed that there was a sheet for it. Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on July 10, 2015, 08:01:04 AM
Nearly impossible to tell since there's barely anything going on.

I'm probably gonna do a bunch of the stuff from Fallout. That is, the unfortunately small selection of music they composed (though I still like it a lot) before putting in all the (awesome) old timey jazz.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 10, 2015, 01:34:18 PM
4/4 F#major
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on July 10, 2015, 07:41:49 PM
Cool, thanks.
With the little B flat octave riff at the beginning (though if I'm notating it in F#, I suppose it'd be A#), I'm assuming that'd be a pick up measure?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 10, 2015, 08:23:00 PM
Yep, and it seems it starts about a dotted quarter before the first measure
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on July 10, 2015, 08:26:45 PM
What I was thinking as well. Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on July 11, 2015, 05:38:19 AM

Hey guys! So this one's a little tricky in terms of key signature, especially due to the fact that it is extremely short in nature. Since it doesn't really stay in one key for even a whole measure, I'm just trying to decide which one would make it the prettiest. Because as of right now in C major, there are accidentals all over the place. What key signature should I use?

Ok, now for a few rapid fire questions on time signature.

Firstly, should I go 4/4 or 2/4?

If 4/4: 3 measures at about 120bpm or 6 measures at 240bpm?
If 2/4: 6 measures at about 120bpm or 12 measures at 240bpm?

I'm thinking that somewhere around 120 would be more accurate for tempo, but that will lead to a lot of 16th notes (semiquavers).
(I know this is supposed to be about key/time signature and not tempo, but its kinda related, so I threw it in here.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on July 14, 2015, 05:14:15 PM
I know I'm outrageously over thinking this.....but what is the Time Sig?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnlpjqXHQnI
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Magic Mole on July 14, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
^Sounds like 3/4 to me, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
While I'm here, is this in D major?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on July 14, 2015, 05:52:42 PM
Yes. D Major
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on July 14, 2015, 10:50:18 PM
Mobile Adapter 1:
No, it's not 3/4, it's 4/4. You can easily hear that at the part 0:28, and also in the bass. 
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FierceDeity on July 14, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
^Sounds like 3/4 to me, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Mobile Adapter 1:
No, it's not 3/4, it's 4/4

Psssst
When somebody uses ^, they're referring to the post above them
Hell, they're usually referring to the one above them regardless, unless otherwise stated
(in other words, he was talking about MLF's piece, not his own)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on July 14, 2015, 11:10:56 PM
SO.....4/4?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on July 14, 2015, 11:13:55 PM
NO, your song mlf is in 3/4 or 6/8.

The song in 4/4 is Magic Mole's song from Pokémon Crystal.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on July 14, 2015, 11:29:48 PM
@mlf yours is in 6/8. what i believe are pizzicato notes mark the beginning of a measure.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on July 15, 2015, 12:04:53 AM
Ok. Thanks. I was 90% sure it was in 6/8 or 3/4.....odd.....I can usually figure it out myself  :-[
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Magic Mole on July 15, 2015, 02:41:25 PM
Could somebody tell me what the key signature is for this? Thanks :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on July 15, 2015, 03:13:10 PM
C major
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Magic Mole on July 15, 2015, 03:25:06 PM
Mmk thanks, that's what I originally thought but I wanted to be sure
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mayastarr041 on July 16, 2015, 05:56:37 AM
What time and key signature is this song in? Thank you.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on July 17, 2015, 12:23:59 PM
For the intro it's 4/4 - it starts in C-major before taking a trip to F-major.
The part that repeats is in C-major, and the time sig is the following figure repeated over and over again: //: 7/4+7/4+6/4+6/4+7/4 ://
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mayastarr041 on July 18, 2015, 06:43:40 AM
Thank you so muchh.  :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on August 05, 2015, 08:56:18 PM
I'm gonna try to arrange a ton of stuff from Pokemon Colosseum, so any information as to the time signatures for this would be helpful.
Leaving for a bit, and if I could come back to some information I would love you all <3 <3
(But of course no worries if that isn't available)\
This one is most important right now :D
Not exactly sure how I'll notate all the sound effects and stuff, but I'll figure something out


Many thanks to anyone who helps me out with the signatures (or the arrangements, as I'll probably need help with them XD)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on August 06, 2015, 11:57:49 PM
^All of those are either 4/4 or 12/8.

Can someone confirm with me that this is in G# minor? Every arrangement of it is in F# minor and it's driving me crazy.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on August 07, 2015, 12:15:07 AM
Yeah, it does sound like it's in G# minor. No idea why others have it in F# minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on August 07, 2015, 12:26:41 AM
I don't know anything about that song (I haven't listened to other videos), but for copyrighted anime songs it is very common for the uploader to pitch the song up or down a bit so that YouTube can't recognize the soundtrack as copirighted material, and then remove it. That may be the case with that video. There are actually more wrong-pitched versions of anime songs on YouTube than there are versions of the original. So yeah. Likely, that's the case.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on August 07, 2015, 12:40:22 AM
Hah, you're right. When I listened to it directly from the episode (anime site) it was in F# minor. >_>
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on August 07, 2015, 02:14:44 AM
G# minor in that video.
Ditching Pokemon Colosseum for a little while in favor of simpler 8 bit music from the request board.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on August 07, 2015, 04:22:41 AM
G minor 4/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on August 07, 2015, 04:26:58 AM
Um, what? No it's not. I've arranged this in the past and it's definitely 4/4.

EDIT: EDIT
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on August 07, 2015, 04:28:57 AM
The syncopation in the beginning got me ;p
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on August 07, 2015, 04:51:50 AM
gg fa
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 05, 2015, 06:39:43 PM
Just to check, would this song be better with the quarter equaling 150, or 75 while in 6/8?
It looks weird with 150, because all those LH arpeggios at the beginning are 16ths, but it still looks strange when put in 75.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umfc69VlAF4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on September 05, 2015, 06:45:17 PM
I'm hearing 150 bpm personally. The arpeggios sound a bit like 1/4-subdivisions anyway, not 1/2-subs.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 05, 2015, 06:56:50 PM
I think it's perfectly fine having them as 16ths notes, 16th arpeggios are quite common after all.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on September 05, 2015, 07:11:26 PM
Ok. It's probably just my noob intuition, but it didn't really sound like 16ths to me. Guess I'll just leave it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 06, 2015, 01:49:34 AM
... unless you want to write it in 6/4, but it might be better to keep things simple and have it in 6/8.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: skiaak on September 06, 2015, 04:10:47 AM
Most importantly what key sig is this in (just want to check with you guys).


and this

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on September 06, 2015, 04:22:08 AM
^^
I actually did both these songs :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on September 06, 2015, 04:27:50 AM
The first one seems entirely percussion so it's a bit hard to tell really.
You may like Maestro's Virtuosic arrangement of the Airship theme, by the way.
Quick question, I'm hearing 4/4 G minor on this one (I know it's G minor just confused on time sig a bit) but it's making the beginning play out a bit funny. Any and all advice appreciated.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on September 06, 2015, 05:19:26 AM
Most importantly what key sig is this in (just want to check with you guys).

Airship

and Volcano Underground



Based on MLF's previous arrangements of these songs, the first is 1 flat and the second is no sharps nor flats (I say it that way because I don't know if they are different modes or simply major/minor).

The first one seems entirely percussion so it's a bit hard to tell really.
You may like Maestro's Virtuosic arrangement of the Airship theme, by the way.
Quick question, I'm hearing 4/4 G minor on this one (I know it's G minor just confused on time sig a bit) but it's making the beginning play out a bit funny. Any and all advice appreciated.

4/4 is correct. What's playing out weird?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 09, 2015, 07:04:39 PM
Wtf is wrong with this song!?? What time signature does it go in??
First it seems like a straight 4/4, 2/4 but then like 9/8 and 6/8 and wtf?? I almost seems like the bass and the melody goes in different time signatures.

And also what key signature?? I'm guessing Eb-minor but I'm not sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFtY3-_RkRw
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on September 09, 2015, 08:35:53 PM
That is the weirdest song I've ever heard :P
It sounds like 4/4 all the way through and I have no clue about the Key sig.....again, very weird song.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 09, 2015, 08:46:09 PM
I thought it sounded so straight-forward but when I started working with it, it turned out to be a completely different story.

Anyways forget the key sig, I'm sure it's Eb-minor but very chromatic song. But the time sig is a mystery. I'll have to try what seems most logical a looks best.

Here's how far I've come: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Prologue.zip
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 09, 2015, 09:13:49 PM
I haven't actually dived into the details of the song to say this - I'm just mentioning it:
Let's not forget that a song doesn't have to go in one time sig over the course of the song. That goes for key too.
In this song, the time sig is kinda irrelevant, as it never seems to ever settle on something (well, I don't really know that, though). Or something along those lines...
This sorta happens with the key too during some parts of the song, but the tonal center our minds always wanna go back to (and which the song actually does go back to, as well) is clearly Eb-minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 09, 2015, 10:30:42 PM
Here's another version, I think this is better much more simple time signatures, but with an off-beat feeling in the melody in the first bars.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Prologue.zip
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on September 12, 2015, 06:38:15 PM

I've been going back and forth on this one. Do you guys think 4/4 or 12/8? That repeating phrase in the right hand led me to 12/8 when I originally thought they were triplets. But they aren't. They are a really ugly rhythm. I get to have fun trying to figure out the correct beaming for that one...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on September 12, 2015, 06:44:04 PM
trying to count it in 12 would lead to a headache imo
I'm thinking it's 4/4 cuz I don't hear any triplets.  Just wondering how you'd notate the percussion though...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 12, 2015, 06:49:31 PM
I quite sure it's 4/4, hearing some 16th notes divided in groups of 4 here and there. And the high notes are some sort of triplets.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on September 12, 2015, 06:59:48 PM
And the high notes are some sort of triplets.
Ok, I do agree with the time signature. But this, I have a different opinion on. The single bass part that plays in the first 2 measures sounds completely off when played against triplets. The only viable option would be eighth note triplets (4 groups of 3). Of course, I don't have the correct beaming (yet), but the rhythm that sounds correct in Finale is dotted 16th-dotted 16th-16th (x4). I think if you slow down the YouTube video to 50%, you can tell that they are not triplets.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 12, 2015, 07:04:17 PM
Can you link a mus file of it, the results you've gotten so far, and it might be easier to help and see what's the problem is.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 12, 2015, 07:06:38 PM
As weird as this may sound, it changes between the two at random times (rarely actually being a perfect version of either of them). That's what I hear at least. For the sake of nice sheet music, and that it really doesn't matter for the performer, I'd write it all as triples.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on September 12, 2015, 07:17:23 PM
As weird as this may sound, it changes between the two at random times (rarely actually being a perfect version of either of them). That's what I hear at least. For the sake of nice sheet music, and that it really doesn't matter for the performer, I'd write it all as triples.
Thank you so much for saying this. I thought I was crazy for hearing this. I was like really confused with what to put because it did seem to lack consistency.

Can you link a mus file of it, the results you've gotten so far, and it might be easier to help and see what's the problem is.
Just so you know, this is not my song. I was just helping Oasis out with it when I stumbled across this weird thing. Going with what Jompa said, I have this kind of test mus file that kind of has 3 different options: one as triplets, one as non-triplets, and one with them combined. I agree with Jompa about the triplet thing looking nicer, but the triplets don't sound right with the first 2 beats of that bass part. Anyway, here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nd3ios7u9464c0i/Freezeflame.mus?dl=0) is the file.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on September 13, 2015, 05:08:57 PM
Any thoughts? What's the final verdict?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on September 16, 2015, 03:11:10 AM

I think this song is probably going to be one of the worst nightmares to arrange, but whatever. From what I've listened to and read about this song, it is mainly free time with occasional measures of 4/4 and 5/4 (No idea where these are, just read that). So, since it is most likely free time (if you detect that it isn't, enlighten me), should I give it a time signature? If I should, which one? And if it should be written as simply free time, how does one do that in Finale?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on September 16, 2015, 03:14:24 AM
Why would you arrange this piece hahaha

Like I really enjoy how off the wall and quirky it is but I don't know that a piano arrangement is the best idea? If you're sure you want to, this piece has a few different options. The one I'm leaning toward is just not using any meter and notating it exactly how it sounds, since I can't see another way to arrange it that would benefit the pianist much. You could also just put the notes in, not strictly adhering to the piece's heard rhythm, and just say "improvise" in some of the expressive text. However, since our goal for this site is accuracy, the former is my vote.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on September 16, 2015, 03:17:20 AM
Why would you arrange this piece hahaha
IMMA STUPID HUMAN DEAL WITH IT! Besides, I'm the one who's gonna attempt to get the first accepted medley on site in ages...if I found time to actually arrange it.

Like I really enjoy how off the wall and quirky it is but I don't know that a piano arrangement is the best idea? If you're sure you want to, this piece has a few different options. The one I'm leaning toward is just not using any meter and notating it exactly how it sounds, since I can't see another way to arrange it that would benefit the pianist much. You could also just put the notes in, not strictly adhering to the piece's heard rhythm, and just say "improvise" in some of the expressive text. However, since our goal for this site is accuracy, the former is my vote.
I agree, the former is probably the best option.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on September 16, 2015, 03:21:14 AM
Hey, another question, is this song in E major or E mixolydian? I hear a lot of D naturals in there (aka flatted seventh) so that is what leaned me towards the latter...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on September 16, 2015, 03:32:56 AM
Mmm, you also have that b2 to worry about, so it wouldn't exactly be pure E mixolydian.

I'm not too familiar with key signatures of non-traditional western scales, but I just thought I should mention that.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on September 16, 2015, 03:37:05 AM
Mmm, you also have that b2 to worry about, so it wouldn't exactly be pure E mixolydian.

I'm not too familiar with key signatures of non-traditional western scales, but I just thought I should mention that.
It's ok, neither am I. I just take chances at sounding somewhat intelligent...usually I fail. :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on September 16, 2015, 04:52:22 AM
Why would you arrange this piece hahaha
Trust me, we wouldn't be arranging it if we didn't have too :P
It's a replacement which has to be done in order for the Super Mario 64 Project to come to completion.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 16, 2015, 01:58:01 PM
I found a couple of good pages for this issue:
Free Time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_time_(music)
Notating in Finale: https://www.finalemusic.com/UserManuals/Finale2014Mac/Content/Finale/Chant.htm

Haven't read thoroughly but they seem pretty legit. Hiding measure lines, time signatures to create free time, maybe put some dashed lines or other stuff to help the performer see certain parts. 

One other option could be to notate it completely accurate. Will probably be a bit messy with all kinds of time signatures.


Here is one example of a piece in free time: http://imslp.eu/Files/imglnks/euimg/c/cd/IMSLP237520-PMLP07506-Satie__Erik-Klavierwerke_Peters_Klemm_Band_1_04_Gnossiennes_scan.pdf


As for other exotic scales. If it is a scale with seven or less notes then it is pretty simple, just base it around a diatonic scale. An example: having an E-minor scale with a flat 2nd. Then use accidentals whenever that note shows up. Listening to the song I can tell that it is E is the root note, so I think it might be a wise idea to write it in E-major, especially if it's true what slow said that the song has other intervals and not being a straight mixolydian scale.

Here is an example of a song I arranged that goes in some Egyptian-like scale, I used accidentals to cover up the scale: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Yu-Gi-Oh%21%20Dark%20Duel%20Stories/Duel%21%20VS%20Shadi.zip
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on September 16, 2015, 02:07:47 PM
As for other exotic scales. If it is a scale with seven or less notes then it is pretty simple, just base it around a diatonic scale. An example: having an E-minor scale with a flat 2nd. Then use accidentals whenever that note shows up.

The thing is, that would be the Phrygian mode. We've had many a discussion over whether to notate pieces as if they are minor/major w/ accidentals, or show the mode in the key signature.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 16, 2015, 03:09:03 PM
True, I think it's best to first write down the notes to see. If it's a diatonic mode, like phrygian,  then the case is settled, if not we'll discuss it to find the best solution.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on September 16, 2015, 06:36:23 PM
Not phrygian. Dominant-phrygian. Write it as E-major (this isn't lame-ass choir music).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on October 04, 2015, 12:25:12 AM
bumping this sorry.

I need the time sig for this song. I'm not sure if 4/4 is right or not. It feels a little off somehow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6LmMCuGjfA&index=22&list=PLpJl5XaLHtLX-pDk4kctGxtF4nq6BIyjg
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on October 04, 2015, 12:28:10 AM
It's 4/4, just be careful of syncopation and tempo changes.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on October 04, 2015, 06:22:39 AM

Key sig, anyone? I originally said D major; then I heard the other sharps and flats... :P Can anyone identify, does this ever settle on one key or does it just keep changing? Usually I'm good at these...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on October 05, 2015, 03:42:05 AM
Anyone?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on October 05, 2015, 04:31:42 AM
It centers around D Major, to be sure. It just likes using a D Major 7th chord as its root.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on October 05, 2015, 05:01:25 AM
I hear it centering around F# later on around 1:00 (with a b7 though, perhaps mixolydian?) . It does go on a bit of a journey later on, but I'm too lazy to write down the changes.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on October 05, 2015, 07:05:16 AM
I'd right it out in D or A major first, then it'll be easier to figure out exactly what's going on. where's jompa :x
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on October 05, 2015, 10:43:32 AM
For the first part it is in A-major. The chord progression here is Dmaj - C#m7, which is why some of you got the idea of D-major, but no, it's A. It pretty quickly goes on strange journeys that will only come to light while arranging the song, but for the beginning it always wants to go back to the Dmaj - C#m7 ostinat, so I'd just use A-major for all of that. At 0:36 the chord progression becomes Ebm7 l Fbmaj for a while, and here the key is Ab-minor, before briefly going back to the A-major ostinat again (Dmaj - C#m7) at 0:51. At 0:59 it goes to F#-major (mixolydian), and stays there throughout 1:14 (but it's not mixolydian anymore). At 1:28 it goes to Eb-major (mixolydian), with a time sig change 3/4. At 1:50 it's the A-major ostinat again (D-maj - C#m7), but in 3/4. It changes back to 4/4 two measures before the next part. At 2:05 it's back to F#-major (mixolydian), in 4/4 (like before). At 2:20 it's back to the start (A-major).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on October 05, 2015, 12:55:08 PM
For the first part it is in A-major. The chord progression here is Dmaj - C#m7, which is why some of you got the idea of D-major, but no, it's A. It pretty quickly goes on strange journeys that will only come to light while arranging the song, but for the beginning it always wants to go back to the Dmaj - C#m7 ostinat, so I'd just use A-major for all of that. At 0:36 the chord progression becomes Ebm7 l Fbmaj for a while, and here the key is Ab-minor, before briefly going back to the A-major ostinat again (Dmaj - C#m7) at 0:51. At 0:59 it goes to F#-major (mixolydian), and stays there throughout 1:14 (but it's not mixolydian anymore). At 1:28 it goes to Eb-major (mixolydian), with a time sig change 3/4. At 1:50 it's the A-major ostinat again (D-maj - C#m7), but in 3/4. It changes back to 4/4 two measures before the next part. At 2:05 it's back to F#-major (mixolydian), in 4/4 (like before). At 2:20 it's back to the start (A-major).
This is why I ask for help ;D
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on October 07, 2015, 12:55:29 AM

I'm having trouble figuring out the time signature and tempo of the beginning part, especially since the tempo fluctuates so often and it's pretty much just one rhythm.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 07, 2015, 01:04:50 AM
Once the melody gets started, it's in 6/8.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on October 07, 2015, 01:22:51 AM
I'm aware of the time sig after the melody starts--although to me, it sounds like it's in 3/4. Admittedly, it does change to more of a 6/8 style (or a 3/4 twice as fast) later on, but I'm keeping it in 3/4 then as well for the sake of convenience.

I just can't figure out what it is at first.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on October 07, 2015, 01:39:46 AM
Sounds like a cadenza to me.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 07, 2015, 01:59:11 AM
Sounds like a cadenza to me.
Exactly what I was thinking.

I just can't figure out what it is at first.
Sorry about that. Should of told you first of all.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on October 07, 2015, 02:20:56 AM
lol okay  ::)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on October 07, 2015, 02:46:14 AM
In that case, how should I notate it?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 07, 2015, 02:47:10 AM
lol okay  ::)
Honestly, I didn't say it because I couldn't remember the name of it :c
I thought it was cadence at first #ultrafacepalm
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on October 07, 2015, 02:55:45 AM
In that case, how should I notate it?

That might be tricky without the full version of finale. The gist of it would be to put it in one big measure and hide the huge time signature.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on October 07, 2015, 11:26:19 PM
Hmm, I've been trying to notate it, but the tempo fluctuates so much that I can't make the rhythm accurate. How should I go about arranging it? Just a constant use of tempo expressions? Also, since it seems to be a bit slower than that of the main theme, should I change the tempo temporarily as well?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on October 07, 2015, 11:41:16 PM
The rhythm doesn't have to be 100% accurate, since cadenza are usually played freely, without a strict rhythm, and the performer is supposed to accelerate and decelerate in the appropriate places.
IMO, having just the basic note values and adding "accel" or "rit" where necessary should be fine.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 08, 2015, 04:33:35 AM
Does anyone know what this song is? I know I recognize it.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG757bPPXZQ
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on October 08, 2015, 04:53:31 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6uV-eMOEs

Granted, the FNAF version is transposed down a minor third, and it's a bit more jittery.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 11, 2015, 12:11:51 AM
Yes, that's it!
Thanks. I knew I heard that before and I couldn't find it anywhere.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on October 14, 2015, 03:02:35 AM

Should I notate this in 14/8 and 13/8, or 14/16 and 13/16? Or another way?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on October 14, 2015, 03:07:40 AM
Well actually, it goes 1 measure of 14/8 followed by one of 13/8. That seems to repeat indefinitely. So, 27/8 or 27/16 would be my guess. I'd probably go 27/16 but I'd wait for someone else to verify.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on October 14, 2015, 03:11:12 AM
Huh, wasn't thinking... Yeah, 27/16 would be more logical. :P

And upon arranging... the score becomes a train wreck. O.O How should I connect the sixteenth notes together, if at all?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on October 14, 2015, 03:28:27 AM
Huh, wasn't thinking... Yeah, 27/16 would be more logical. :P

And upon arranging... the score becomes a train wreck. O.O How should I connect the sixteenth notes together, if at all?
I'll help you with that later...I gotta go to sleep :P I'll help tomorrow, unless someone gets here first!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on October 14, 2015, 02:29:33 PM
Oh, god, this switches to 26/16 (14+12) partway through.

Now this is making me wonder if I should notate this in 27/16 and 26/16, or 14/16, 13/16, and 12/16. Anyone else have an idea on which one to use?

EDIT: Or it might be 25/16. It sounded like 26, but now I come up one note short when trying to notate.

Either way, I'll be gone for a while now.

EDIT AGAIN: It goes to 25/16 (13+12)... O.o

I feel like I should actually be notating it in 14/16, 13/16, and 12/16, because they definitely sound like very distinct measures. I'd like to get other people's thoughts on this.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on October 14, 2015, 11:13:26 PM
I'd notate it as 14/8+13/8 for the A section, then 13/8+12/8 for the B section Although there's probably a more correct way of doing it.
Just regarding the beaming.
Note where the accented notes are.
In the first part, it goes something like
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Around 0:22 it then switches to something like
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Then it repeats.
Each measure begins with that "1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3" accent pattern.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on October 14, 2015, 11:25:45 PM
Yeah, that's what I thought would be logical. Thanks for confirmation. The arranging itself is just about done, so I'm just cleaning it up and doing formatting and that stuff. It's not particularly hard to arrange, but the time signature is super tricky. :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 19, 2015, 11:38:58 PM
Am I correct in assuming that this song is in 13/8?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxAKSyMPNZk
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on October 20, 2015, 12:06:48 AM
Yeah. 7/8-6/8(3/4). 2+2+3+2+2+2
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 20, 2015, 12:37:44 AM
Should I write it in 13/8 or 7/8 and 6/8?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on October 20, 2015, 12:43:32 AM
It's up to you.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on October 20, 2015, 02:33:52 AM
Ok
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on November 01, 2015, 09:05:08 PM
I'm having trouble deciding which time signature this song fits best in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gFSWJGxMqQ

A fast (q.=150) 9/8 could do it, or maybe even 9/16 (8.=150) (I like the string triplets being 16th showing that they are quick) but it might be a bit too unusual. Also a slow (q.=50) 12/8 is also an option, but it works best in the beginning I'd have to change time signatures later on to 6/8 or 3/8. I leaning towards 9/16, but the only thing stopping me is if it's to unusual. So I'd like to hear you guys opinion.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on November 01, 2015, 09:23:55 PM
9/8 would probably be the easiest to both write and read.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on November 01, 2015, 09:29:29 PM
What? It's obviously in some form of compound meter. The melody comes in with a big 2-3-4-1 every other bar, with triplet subdivision underneath.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on November 01, 2015, 11:19:55 PM
I'd say 9/8. It's more common and thus, as Jompa said, easier to read.

I have a question of my own:


What time sig should I notate this in? I'm thinking I should do 6/8, but a fast 3/4 might also work. Thoughts?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on November 01, 2015, 11:23:28 PM
I'd probably go 6/8 because it has that triplet type feel that is associated with 6/8. Watch out though, because that 4 measure intro is in 4/4. And 4/4 shows up for a couple other 2 measure and 4 measure sets as well, so watch for those.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on November 01, 2015, 11:27:59 PM
I'd probably go 6/8 because it has that triplet type feel that is associated with 6/8. Watch out though, because that 4 measure intro is in 4/4. And 4/4 shows up for a couple other 2 measure and 4 measure sets as well, so watch for those.

I don't think it's 4/4, is it? I think the notes are dotted eighths in a 6/8 rhythm.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on November 01, 2015, 11:38:44 PM
I don't think it's 4/4, is it? I think the notes are dotted eighths in a 6/8 rhythm.

Well, the percussion is playing a 4/4 type pattern and the huge tempo change from those sections to the 6/8 ones makes me think they are different time sigs as well. I don't hear any indication of 6/8 in those occasional sections.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on November 01, 2015, 11:44:36 PM
Well, the percussion is playing a 4/4 type pattern and the huge tempo change from those sections to the 6/8 ones makes me think they are different time sigs as well. I don't hear any indication of 6/8 in those occasional sections.

At 1:18, the accordion is playing a triplet-based rhythm on top of that lower part. I don't hear any tempo change at all, actually. If you notate them as dotted eighths in 6/8, then there is no tempo change.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on November 01, 2015, 11:48:32 PM
You need to notate them in dotted quarters, not dotted eighths. Then you can keep the 6/8 throughout.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on November 01, 2015, 11:56:29 PM
You need to notate them in dotted quarters, not dotted eighths. Then you can keep the 6/8 throughout.

Then it doesn't match right with 6/8. The strong beats are 1 and 4 in 6/8. In that case, the melody would go like this:

1-2-3-4-5-6-1-2-3-4-5-6

When what I'm hearing is a 6/8 half as fast, with the melody playing like so:

1-2-3-4-5-6-and
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on November 02, 2015, 01:01:02 AM
My bad, I thought you were talking about something else.
Thing is, about the opening, notating it in dotted eighths is rather awkward, since dotted quarters aren't usually divided into dotted eighths. 2:3 Duplets may be better, but then you'd have to deal with nesting and all that when that other voice pops in to say hello for a couple of seconds (with a triple feel).
Just some food for thought.

I tried making a table to show what I mean but the BBCode formatting didn't work so I deleted it.


Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on November 02, 2015, 01:13:12 AM
My bad, I thought you were talking about something else.
Thing is, about the opening, notating it in dotted eighths is rather awkward, since dotted quarters aren't usually divided into dotted eighths. 2:3 Duplets may be better, but then you'd have to deal with nesting and all that when that other voice pops in to say hello for a couple of seconds (with a triple feel).
Just some food for thought.

I tried making a table to show what I mean but the BBCode formatting didn't work so I deleted it.

Yeah, this is getting messy real quickly. It doesn't help that the bass line during the main part in 6/8 still plays a rhythm similar to that of the beginning section...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on November 09, 2015, 03:48:25 AM
https://youtu.be/MHQoQd5UMe0
help pls
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on November 09, 2015, 06:18:27 AM
Your vid's broken on my side.

I think it's D major, then to Ab major at 0:27.
I'd write the time signature as 4/4 with swing.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on November 16, 2015, 03:20:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymY0FTTqLPU

Anybody wanna do me a solid and give me the key
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on November 16, 2015, 03:39:07 AM
The harmonies are very chromatic, so I'd suggest relying on the individual chords themselves to decide how to spell your accidentals. If the beginning is any indication though, perhaps taking a "flat-centric" approach might work in your favor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on November 17, 2015, 12:19:41 AM
F# minor, I'd say.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on November 22, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
What key is this song in??
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on November 23, 2015, 12:13:43 AM
C major
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on November 23, 2015, 02:09:35 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on November 23, 2015, 08:24:24 AM
Intro is in C minor doe then it kinda randomly switches between the two modes. Whether or not you want to notate that is up to you.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on November 23, 2015, 03:49:37 PM
Since it's C Major a majority of the time, putting the intro in C Minor and changing to C Major is pointless.....imo.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on November 23, 2015, 09:42:39 PM
It's not pointless when the first chord of the song is C minor, both options are valid.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on November 23, 2015, 09:44:28 PM
It's not pointless when the first chord of the song is C minor, both options are valid.
I mean if you change from Minor to Major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: JDMEK5 on November 24, 2015, 06:49:40 AM
Since it's C Major a majority of the time, putting the intro in C Minor and changing to C Major is pointless.....imo.
It's not pointless when the first chord of the song is C minor, both options are valid.
Guysit'sclearlyinCminorwithaPicardy3rdforlikethewholesong,duh
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on November 24, 2015, 06:53:14 AM
that'sonlytrueoftheintro
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on November 25, 2015, 01:08:57 AM
Yeah
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on November 25, 2015, 03:51:16 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTCSQevpuOg

I feel like I should notate this in cut time with half note = 112... Is it just me?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on November 25, 2015, 04:07:29 AM
You might want to get a second opinion, but I agree; that does sound like cut time at half=112.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on November 25, 2015, 09:57:52 PM
Haven't done any arranging for a while with my rather demanding piano repertoire, so while I practice, would somebody give me the time sig to this lovely thing out of the kindness of their heart? <3 Thanks friends~ I would say "yoomtah!" but it's the wrong game
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on November 25, 2015, 09:59:48 PM
Seems like good ol' 4/4 to me. (At least that's what Bespinben had when he orchestrated this one.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on November 25, 2015, 10:36:09 PM
Many thanks. Listening to it now; it's giving me lots of great ideas (<3 you Bespinben)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on December 01, 2015, 01:12:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib5TBsN9qeo

Key sig from 0:44 to 0:59?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on December 01, 2015, 01:21:52 PM
It's the same as the rest of the piece: 12/8 or 6/8
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on December 01, 2015, 08:32:54 PM
Key sig
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on December 01, 2015, 10:29:44 PM
If you want to get really technical, it's either this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Dorian_scale) or this. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_scale) The fact that there are both Ebs and E naturals make it kind of confusing, and I am not by any means an expert here. Someone else let me know if any of these are reasonable...I would think it would make more sense to write it in C Dorian or C Mixolydian, unless the modes I linked above are more common than I think. I'd definitely wait for someone else to either second or refute this.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Jompa on December 01, 2015, 10:45:44 PM
It's C-lydian. There are some notes used that aren't from C-lydian, but that is only because that second melody is always a major third beneath the melody - and so F, Eb and Bb are sometimes used under A, G and D, respectively.
So C-major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on December 01, 2015, 10:51:04 PM
It's C-lydian. There are some notes used that aren't from C-lydian, but that is only because that second melody is always a major third beneath the melody - and so F, Eb and Bb are sometimes used under A, G and D, respectively.
So C-major.
This is why I don't answer these questions. ;D
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on December 04, 2015, 01:10:14 AM
What's the key...?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on December 04, 2015, 01:11:45 AM
E major.

also try to avoid double-posting thanks
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on December 04, 2015, 02:09:27 AM
Thanks! (And sorry about that XD)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on December 04, 2015, 10:31:59 PM
This song confuses me. Is it 3/4 or 6/8? Seem to go in both, or alternate constantly, or 6/8 in RH and 3/4 in LH at times. What do you guys think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-0uVT66vDU
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on December 04, 2015, 10:37:02 PM
I thinks it's 6/8. It has that constant 2/4 feel.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on December 04, 2015, 10:58:07 PM
oh cool
this is actually similar to Ballad of the Goddess from Skyward Sword, where it can be counted in both.  For this one 6/8 seems more appropriate imo and then you would just use triplets as opposed to 3/4 using dotted quarters or whatever
that might just be my bias for 6/8 speaking though maybe it's technically more correct to run it as 3/4 but I'm not a pedagogue
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on December 04, 2015, 11:05:36 PM
I'm thinking about having it 6/8 but having certain parts beamed as 3/4. Like the part at 0:41, it seems like the RH goes in 6/8 but the LH in 3/4. What do think about that option?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on December 04, 2015, 11:24:30 PM
I mean, if the entire song can be counted in the same time signature idk why you would want to overcomplicate things
...I still don't feel qualified to give music advice.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on December 04, 2015, 11:31:16 PM
Here is a Mus. of what I come so far and to show what I meant.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203.zip

I think that way of writing makes it easier to read the LH rather than beaming it like 6/8, but the RH seems fine with 6/8.


Edit: I'm leaning towards writing this in 3/4 entirely. The accentuation in certain places plus the beaming gives me clues to think that this one is better written in 3/4. And the in 6/8 straight beats actually seems more like syncoped notes.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Onionleaf on December 06, 2015, 05:40:40 AM
Apologies if I'm incorrect but I, too, am always hearing the two sets of quick 1-2-3 counts all throughout the song, so if I was arranging it I'd use 6/8 time. If the time would be changed to 3/4 then the 4th quaver in the bar is no longer accented and the melody line makes no sense. However, I see what you mean about the accompaniment sounding like 3/4. Perhaps you could add the syncopated rhythm into the left hand while keeping it all in 6/8 time? (Haha, I just realised that this is the opposite of what you said in your edit. It's a brain teaser, isn't it? xP)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on December 06, 2015, 02:22:31 PM
Y it's a tricky song. Here's the final result if you want to take a look, I ended up writing it in 3/4:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Wild%20Arms%203/There%27s%20Only%20One%20Family%20Named%20Schr%C3%B6dinger.zip
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Onionleaf on December 07, 2015, 05:42:21 AM
I think "tricky" is a bit of an understatement.  :P It sounds colossally difficult to play, but is so amazing! I've always loved the kind of fast-paced, dramatic JRPG-like soundtracks such as this one, really cool. It stills sounds like 6/8 time for me in some places though, but I think it's best I jump out of that debate, it's just messing up my mind now. xD
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on December 07, 2015, 01:49:14 PM
Y I agree that it is very difficult to play, I'm considering tweaking it at certain parts to make it more playable. This is one of the songs that I think would benefit a lot from the Easy Versions Idea (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=7151.0).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on December 21, 2015, 01:20:10 AM
Spoiler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3jZDthZxNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXZbQ0ZI4E4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HubULBtmfNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI5fmM0J3cY
[close]
I need the time signatures for these songs. I can probably figure out the time signatures by myself.
Copyright and arranger info is also appreciated because I can't find it ._.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on December 21, 2015, 01:58:19 AM
Gooper Blooper is in 12/8.

I'd notate Surfshine Harbor in 6/4, but it might be good to get someone else's opinion on that first.

Blue Skies, White Clouds is just in 4/4.

Copyright seems to be Nintendo, Intelligent Systems, and Vanpool © 2012.

According to BrawlBRSTMs3, the full list of composers is:

Masanori Adachi, Yasuhia Baba, Hiroaki Hanaoka, Kiyoshi Hazemoto, Saki Kurata, Horoki Morishita, Shoh Murakami, Kosei Muraki, Tomoko Sano, Yoshito Sekigawa, Yasumasa Yamada, Koji Kondo

...Someone might want to look into that a little more.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on December 21, 2015, 08:41:35 AM
I'd notate Surfshine Harbor in 6/4, but it might be good to get someone else's opinion on that first.

I'd just do 3/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on December 21, 2015, 03:05:09 PM
I'd just do 3/4.

Seconded.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on December 21, 2015, 03:47:49 PM
Spoiler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3jZDthZxNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXZbQ0ZI4E4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HubULBtmfNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI5fmM0J3cY
[close]
I need the time signatures for these songs. I can probably figure out the time signatures by myself.
Hehe, Paper Mario!


6/4 would be cool though.....
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on December 21, 2015, 07:29:06 PM
Gooper Blooper's intro is so fucking weird to arrange...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on December 22, 2015, 03:50:57 AM
Just making sure that the key is C major like the sheet on site suggests, and I'd like someone with experience to verify it:
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on December 22, 2015, 03:55:21 AM
C major is correct.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on December 22, 2015, 03:57:36 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 23, 2015, 11:09:43 PM
I need the key and time signature for this song!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on December 23, 2015, 11:12:42 PM
C# Minor and 4/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 23, 2015, 11:13:48 PM
C# Minor and 4/4.
Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on December 23, 2015, 11:15:23 PM
It could be notated in 2/4, but I would personally put it in 4/4.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 23, 2015, 11:18:19 PM
It could be notated in 2/4, but I would personally put it in 4/4.
I think I will stick with 4/4.... It's much easier with notepad to do it that way...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 23, 2015, 11:22:38 PM
Wait..... What's the difference between major and minor key signatures??
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on December 23, 2015, 11:36:03 PM
Try editing your posts instead of double posting. [emoji14]
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zeila on December 23, 2015, 11:43:31 PM
Wait..... What's the difference between major and minor key signatures??
I'd say the mood and chord progression, but if you want a more in depth explanation then someone else could explain it to you (because I can't)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 23, 2015, 11:55:06 PM
I'd say the mood and chord progression, but if you want a more in depth explanation then someone else could explain it to you (because I can't)
Thanks! Don't worry... I got E. Gadd to answer that one for me
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on December 24, 2015, 01:22:21 AM
Wait..... What's the difference between major and minor key signatures??

Well the key signatures doesn't change if it's major or minor, C-major and A-minor share the same key signatures (no flats or sharps). The differences between major and minor lies in the scale/intervals, for example the major scale has a major 3rd, 6th and 7th, the minor has a minor 3rd, 6th and 7th.

If you're talking about finale, it's just that you can chose to see the key signatures as major or minor. There is no actual difference I believe. You can write a song in C-major in an A-minor key signature.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 26, 2015, 03:06:13 AM
I need another key signature and time signature, I'm still learning how to tell.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on December 26, 2015, 03:17:58 AM
A Major, 4/4 time.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 26, 2015, 03:18:42 AM
A Major, 4/4 time.
Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 26, 2015, 03:22:15 AM
Actually, I though it would be D major? Would that be acceptabe?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on December 26, 2015, 03:25:01 AM
...no. No, the piece is in A Major. You can't arbitrarily change key sigs like that.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 26, 2015, 03:27:06 AM
Yeah, I should stick with your judgement. Thanks again!
Edit: Nice vocabulary by the way.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nebbles on December 26, 2015, 03:30:39 AM
Dudeman's right, can't do that.


I'm sure this is 4/4, the only thing I'm still a little unsure about is the key signature.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on December 26, 2015, 03:34:41 AM
*hint hint* (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/2356)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nebbles on December 26, 2015, 03:35:51 AM
Oh, woopsie. That answers it!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zeila on December 26, 2015, 04:23:44 AM
I know this is in 6/8 (then it goes to 4/4 I believe), but what is the key signature? Is it C major? A minor? F major? Idunno. Also just to confirm, the official name is "Lake" right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luKuQNEuXBA
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on December 26, 2015, 04:25:16 AM
the official name is "Lake" right?
This is correct. Composer: Go Ichinose.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on December 26, 2015, 04:26:55 AM
I'd say to notate it in F major. That's what it sounds like to me most, though it does modulate a bit.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 26, 2015, 05:50:55 PM
How about this one? I need the key signature, the time signature, and if possible the metronome marking, I suck at telling what they are.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on December 26, 2015, 07:08:42 PM
F Major, 4/4 time. Question: do we really need a separate arrangement for the "Dunked On" version of Dogsong? I honestly think that the Undertale sheet list is going to be overwhelmingly large if we included every single variation included in the game. Shouldn't we just be arranging the official soundtrack? (with maybe a few of the jingles included?)

As for the tempo, you should find a good tempo tapper and measure it out for yourself. I like to use this one (http://www.all8.com/tools/bpm.htm).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on December 26, 2015, 07:14:17 PM
That would have to be Yug_Guy's call.....
We are still going to have over 100 songs to arrange if we do that.... (minus the completed ones)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zeila on December 29, 2015, 08:37:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZrD4cs8DoU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7FkBLIZThY

Thanks in advance! (only looking for key signatures)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on December 29, 2015, 08:43:21 PM
First one starts in C minor and goes to F minor.

Second one is in E major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on January 04, 2016, 09:18:16 PM

Need keysigs n' stuff, though I won't get around to arranging until I get back.

scratchwork for first couple of measures (https://www.dropbox.com/s/sur1mgtty5li41s/Battle%21%20%28Team%20Galactic%29%202.mus?dl=1)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on January 04, 2016, 09:27:15 PM
I'm hearing 4/4, Ab/G# minor. Though Ab minor's probably a nightmare to notate so I'd go with G# minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on January 04, 2016, 09:27:31 PM
Ninjad

Sounds like Ab minor, 4/4 for the first 17 seconds that I listened to.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on January 04, 2016, 09:37:21 PM
Awesome I guessed G# minor! I'm getting better at this lol

also I wanted to know if it changes somewhere in the middle but I guess it's not that urgent
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on January 04, 2016, 09:48:08 PM
It does shift a little, but not for long enough that it warrants a complete key change in the music. I specifically listened for that.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: 12Mari0 on January 08, 2016, 06:59:22 AM
Erm... 4/4, 2/4, or 2/2 time? My intuition leads to 2/4 but I don't know. Also no clue what the key sig is, C Major is working fine for me at the moment.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on January 08, 2016, 07:10:27 AM
Definitely 4/4 C major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: 12Mari0 on January 08, 2016, 07:51:09 AM
Seemed like 2/4 because in the percussive part at the start there was a 3-click pattern that happened once going over a 4/4 barline and once in a bar. Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on January 10, 2016, 08:39:33 PM
I need to know the key signature of this song...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on January 10, 2016, 08:42:12 PM
I need to know the key signature of this song...

C major
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on January 10, 2016, 08:53:36 PM
Any chance I could also get the Time and Key Signature for this piece?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on January 12, 2016, 06:08:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l60vnujrqu8
Key Signature? Is there a pickup measure and if so how many beats?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on January 12, 2016, 06:16:46 AM
BrainyLucario: C major, 4/4

Braix: E minor. Sounds like there's some ambiance before things get started. Is that what you're talking about?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on January 12, 2016, 06:20:52 AM
Sounds like there's some ambiance before things get started. Is that what you're talking about?
Yeah. Also I meant to ask for time signature not key signature whoops
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on January 12, 2016, 06:26:08 AM
Time could be either slow 4/4 or moderate 2/2 (I'd probably opt for the cut time).

As for the introduction, I'm sure you could count it out somehow, but it doesn't sound like it established a set tempo/time until 0:06. I'd make the introduction a slow, cadenza-like pick up, each note getting a beat, then set the tempo when things actually happen.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on January 12, 2016, 06:39:32 AM
sounds like a fermata type note followed by a 3 4+ pickup measure that plays at a different tempo
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on January 20, 2016, 03:13:47 AM
Key?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on January 20, 2016, 03:24:17 AM
C major. No flats, no sharps. Though that Bb makes it sound mixolydian, C is tonic and it should be displayed as such.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on January 23, 2016, 03:12:55 PM
Thanks! And this one?:
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on January 23, 2016, 06:26:40 PM
I'm 99% sure the answer is:

C major. No flats, no sharps. Though that Bb makes it sound mixolydian, C is tonic and it should be displayed as such.

Yes, the same answer.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on January 23, 2016, 07:12:22 PM
I bet if you had this one claimed you'd be asking for this next:

Spoiler
[close]
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on January 23, 2016, 07:46:05 PM
I bet if you had this one claimed you'd be asking for this next:

Spoiler
[close]

Heh. (Too bad it's already mine!)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on January 23, 2016, 10:03:55 PM
Nope! I have no desire for Yoshi Circuit. However, I'll be looking for Tick Tock Clock afterward. XD
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on January 25, 2016, 07:26:20 AM
I need key sigs and time sigs for songs! I can work on it by hand while i'm grounded
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: AwesomeYears on January 25, 2016, 09:33:35 AM
1.) D minor, 6/8 (or 12/8, I can never figure out which one I should choose)
2.) A minor, fast 4/4.
3.) C major, can't exactly figure out time sig.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on January 25, 2016, 01:15:57 PM
Thanks. I'll look into the 3rd time signature, I need to try and learn how to do that anyway
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Yug_Guy on January 25, 2016, 04:24:33 PM
3.) C major, can't exactly figure out time sig.
Sounds like a fast 6/8 to me.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on January 25, 2016, 05:43:42 PM
I just want to give a tip to all those who need help with key and time signature, basically show the way I do.

For key signature: I usually start picking out notes and eventually I see what key sig it should be in. For example if you have a song with reoccurring Bb and Eb, chances are that that song is in Bb-major/G-minor. A second tip is to see what chord it starts on, if the song also starts on a Bb-major chord, then it is probably in Bb-major (2 flats).

For time signature: Try locating the strong beats and the phrases, often these are played by the bass. In 4/4 it's 1 and 3, in 6/8 it's 1 and 4. try also listen if it's a simple or compound meter, by that I mean if it's a time signature that has 2 8ths (or 16ths) for every beat (simple), or if it has 3 8ths per beat (compound). Examples of simple time signatures are: 4/4, 2/2, 2/4, 3/4. Examples of compound time signatures are 6/8, 9/8, 12/8. It could also be an odd meter, like 5/4 and 7/8. 

You get better hearing this by time, and hopefully can by able to pick up the time and key signatures on your own.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on January 25, 2016, 11:13:21 PM
I just want to give a tip to all those who need help with key and time signature, basically show the way I do.

For key signature: I usually start picking out notes and eventually I see what key sig it should be in. For example if you have a song with reoccurring Bb and Eb, chances are that that song is in Bb-major/G-minor. A second tip is to see what chord it starts on, if the song also starts on a Bb-major chord, then it is probably in Bb-major (2 flats).

For time signature: Try locating the strong beats and the phrases, often these are played by the bass. In 4/4 it's 1 and 3, in 6/8 it's 1 and 4. try also listen if it's a simple or compound meter, by that I mean if it's a time signature that has 2 8ths (or 16ths) for every beat (simple), or if it has 3 8ths per beat (compound). Examples of simple time signatures are: 4/4, 2/2, 2/4, 3/4. Examples of compound time signatures are 6/8, 9/8, 12/8. It could also be an odd meter, like 5/4 and 7/8. 

You get better hearing this by time, and hopefully can by able to pick up the time and key signatures on your own.
^I'm saving this, btw.^
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: 12Mari0 on January 26, 2016, 06:57:34 AM
Not a valid youtube URLNot quite sure b/c of the modulations...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on January 26, 2016, 05:24:40 PM
I need a time and key sig for this song, as well.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: 12Mari0 on January 28, 2016, 07:27:02 AM
I need the time sig for this one instead please...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on January 28, 2016, 07:41:31 AM
4/4, but the intro's a little wonky. I think the first two quick notes are a pickup.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: 12Mari0 on January 28, 2016, 08:48:10 AM
I derped. I meant key signature... Sorry...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on January 28, 2016, 02:50:07 PM
B-major, but I think it modulates later on to A-major or something.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on January 28, 2016, 05:14:43 PM
I need a time and key sig for this song, as well.
Ahem...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on January 28, 2016, 06:52:04 PM
A-minor I think.
time signature.. I don't know, the song doesn't go in a strict time signature/tempo. If you want it really accurate I think it requires many time signature changes, another option is to simplify the rhythm and write rubato in the beginning indicating that the tempo is a bit free. 

I think the second part at 0:09 goes entirely in 4/4 however. The first part, I don't know.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on January 28, 2016, 07:02:54 PM
Here is the entire version, Brainy, with the correct title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG757bPPXZQ

A-minor I think.
time signature.. I don't know, the song doesn't go in a strict time signature/tempo. If you want it really accurate I think it requires many time signature changes, another option is to simplify the rhythm and write rubato in the beginning indicating that the tempo is a bit free. 

I think the second part at 0:09 goes entirely in 4/4 however. The first part, I don't know.
Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to disagree. I'm definitely getting F as the tonic.
It's actually not a minor key, it's F major. It may be in 3/4.....but since this song is pretty wonky, I'm not 100% sure.
Here is the original song which this video game song was derived from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy6uV-eMOEs
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on January 28, 2016, 11:18:50 PM
Sounds like F major/D minor to me (seems to switch between them, but the key signature won't change).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on January 31, 2016, 08:30:34 AM
So, bit of a complex question here. I'm planning to arrange this song from the first Bioshock:

And then I found out that the composer has released the scores for it!
http://garryschyman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/garryschymanbioshock.pdf

But, as you can see, he has it in 4/4 with groups of 6 all over the place. Theory nerds will be quick to spot that that's technically incorrect, especially as it's literally the entire piece's motif.
So, question; should I do it as the composer has, with 4/4 and groups of 6, 12/8, or 6/8? I bring up 6/8 because there are a couple half measures (and one 3/4 measure) in the manuscript where Schyman goes into 2/4 or 3/4, and having a "shorter" time signature would allow for those measures to exist w/o messing with the time signature.

For the moment, I'm doing 6/8 for that reason. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on January 31, 2016, 11:11:31 AM
I mean both works I guess. But I think it's fine if you want to do it in a compound meter.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on February 01, 2016, 01:16:25 AM
Well both 12/8 and 6/8 are in compound meter. I'm just gonna do it in 6/8 so I don't have to do a half measure later. The piece is organized in long cells anyways, might as well.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zeila on February 04, 2016, 02:32:02 AM
I need the key signature for this song, thanks in advance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2bsybeS2yY
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on February 04, 2016, 02:36:25 AM
Sounds like C phrygian, notated with accidentals and a key signature of no sharps or flats.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on February 04, 2016, 02:44:30 AM
Sounds like C phrygian, notated with accidentals and a key signature of no sharps or flats.

Ehhhhh but isn't C phrygian supposed to derive from C minor? 3 flats? Didn't that book you posted in the Ocarina Melodies thread have that? :p
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on February 04, 2016, 02:55:25 AM
Correct! I misspoke. It is a minor mode. Thank you!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on February 11, 2016, 08:12:05 PM
I need the time signature /key signature  for this song.
Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 11, 2016, 08:13:55 PM
There are probably a couple different ways this song's time sig could be put, but I would recommend 6/8 at 54 BPM.

EDIT: Key signature is A Minor (no flats/sharps).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on February 11, 2016, 08:15:07 PM
There are probably a couple different ways this song's time sig could be put, but I would recommend 6/8 at 54 BPM.
And what about the key signature?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on February 11, 2016, 08:15:37 PM
smooth edit skills
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 11, 2016, 08:17:25 PM
And what about the key signature?
Sorry about that.....guess I didn't edit quick enough :P
It's in A minor (no sharps/flats.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on February 25, 2016, 12:27:30 AM

Plz and Thank you
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on February 25, 2016, 12:41:28 AM
C Major and 4/4 at 100 BPM. Since it sounds like it's in 2, I'd notate it in 2/2 at 100 BPM.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zeila on February 29, 2016, 04:53:32 AM
Just to clarify, I believe this is in 10/8, but I heard that the pattern is also common in 5/4 time. Other than that, I need the key sigs for both songs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y49b8aiQVBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftyE2w1CUFs

Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on February 29, 2016, 06:24:13 AM
The 1st song is IMO best notated just chromatically with sharps and flats.
Second one is E flat minor/D sharp minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: AwesomeYears on February 29, 2016, 07:35:29 AM
Yay CotN! I should compose some of the music as well :P
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zunawe on February 29, 2016, 09:16:53 AM
Time sig? I wanna say something like 9/8, but they kinda feel like triplets.

Also, suggestions on composer name spelling while I'm here? I've seen: Ko Otani, Koh Ohtani, Koh Otani, Kow Otani, Kou Otani, Kô Ôtani, Kō Ōtani, etc...
Japanese Characters: 大谷 幸
His Wikipedia page says Kow Otani, as does his VGMdb page.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on February 29, 2016, 10:43:19 AM
I'd personally go with 9/8 here.

I actually don't know if you should go with the way the composer chooses to render their name, which appears to be Kow Otan, or if you should go with the way they are credited in the game, which appears to be Kō Ōtani. Although, the most common romanization nowadays would be Kō Ōtani in western naming order (in Japanese, the order is family name before given name). The other spellings come from different romanization types.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on February 29, 2016, 02:31:26 PM
The Sunlit Earth:

It almost seems like a 6/8 but as a compound time signature, that would be 18/16. But later in the song it seems a bit more like a 9/8, which I'd go with since it's much more common. You could also do 3/4 or 6/8 with triplets, but there's really no need to since the song contains constant triplets so you could just write it as 9/8 for simplicity.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on March 02, 2016, 06:37:39 PM
I didn't know where else to post this, so I'll post it here.
I have a question about my arrangement.
Spoiler
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/lxyvoagysb2wdl2/Screenshot%202016-03-02%2011.28.50.png?dl=1)
[close]
Should the Bbs in 18, 22, and others like it be A#s (The B in the right hand and the A# in 23 is what tipped me off)? In 23 I put an A# because of the B in the next measure and because it's an ascending passage.
I think the Bbs should be A#s.....am I correct?


EDIT:
Original if you need it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6hsdWGF0no
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on March 02, 2016, 07:13:52 PM
Since the piece is in a sharped key signature, I would recommend using A#'s instead of Bb's.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on March 02, 2016, 09:03:14 PM
Since the piece is in a sharped key signature, I would recommend using A#'s instead of Bb's.

nay nay my friend. That's not how it works.

Here's what I'd do:
mm. 18 LH: Bb's as written, since it sounds like a lowered fifth rather than a raised fourth.
mm. 18 RH: B natural as written (with a courtesy natural). That is just V - i (easy)
mm. 22 LH: keep the Bb's, since it's an ostinato (a figure that repeats underneath the melody).
mm. 23 RH: keep the A#. Chromatic ascent.

tl;dr (hardly) you had it right the first time.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on March 02, 2016, 09:15:55 PM
Since the piece is in a sharped key signature, I would recommend using A#'s instead of Bb's.
I don't think that's how it works.


nay nay my friend. That's not how it works.

Here's what I'd do:
mm. 18 LH: Bb's as written, since it sounds like a lowered fifth rather than a raised fourth.
mm. 18 RH: B natural as written (with a courtesy natural). That is just V - i (easy)
mm. 22 LH: keep the Bb's, since it's an ostinato (a figure that repeats underneath the melody).
mm. 23 RH: keep the A#. Chromatic ascent.

tl;dr (hardly) you had it right the first time.

Hmmmm, that doesn't seem right because of measures 31 & 32. Measure 31 sounds like a Bb major chord and 32 sounds like a B major chord.....unless I have those measures wrong.

Finished sheet:
[MUS] (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ovykgkg2r41wt75/GoldenEye%20007%20%28N64%29%20-%20Cradle.mus?dl=1)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 28, 2016, 10:30:06 AM
\

Just need help with the beginning. How should this be notated? It clearly goes into 3/4 after, but I'm not sure what to do about the beginning bit.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on March 28, 2016, 01:51:27 PM
I'm not sure in this specific case. But for these kinds of sections I usually try to find the closes tempo + time signature and change if needed to make it as accurate as possible but also not too complicated. I often also try to make the notes on strong beats, unless they feel like they're on a weak beat.
I think it's some sort of 5/4 and then 3/4's and later I think there is a 4/4 as well. You can also write rubato, indicating that the tempo is a bit loose.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on March 28, 2016, 02:15:19 PM
I hear it all as a slightly quicker 3/4 than the rest of the piece, with a ritard towards the end.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on March 28, 2016, 03:15:09 PM
I hear it all as a slightly quicker 3/4 than the rest of the piece, with a ritard towards the end.
I agree; I'm hearing a quicker 3/4 as well.

Also, I kind of have my own question.


In this song, I'm pretty confident that the beginning key sig is Ab major (even though there are some D naturals). The second and third keys that it goes into are where I get a little confused. The original sheet on site (this is going to be a replacement) has the second key as E major, but I was thinking it could range anywhere from A major to B major (in terms of sharps). For the final key signature, The sheet on site has Ab major, but based on the first chord in that key I thought it should be Db major. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 28, 2016, 07:42:55 PM
Can't listen to it right now because I'm not at home, but from memory I can confirm that the first section seems to be Ab major.

I'll check the other sections when I do get home.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on March 29, 2016, 11:16:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blge4fEHzoo
time signatures?
I thought 4/4(85bpm) and 6/8 but those are just guesses.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on March 29, 2016, 11:20:29 PM
4/4
tempo seems to be around 88
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on March 29, 2016, 11:22:32 PM
Btw time signature changes at 1:20
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on March 29, 2016, 11:25:23 PM
oh
huh well it's probably 6/8
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on March 29, 2016, 11:30:18 PM
It's definitely 6/8 at 1:20.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: InsigTurtle on March 29, 2016, 11:33:43 PM
Oh, yeah, I've almost completed this one.
It's 4/4 until minute:seconds and then 6/8 until repeat
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on March 29, 2016, 11:37:32 PM
yay I guessed 6/8 correctly thanks guys
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 30, 2016, 12:31:56 AM
\

Just need help with the beginning. How should this be notated? It clearly goes into 3/4 after, but I'm not sure what to do about the beginning bit.
With this track, what do you all think is the rough BPM?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on March 30, 2016, 12:46:48 AM
I'm clocking it at approx. 74 BPM.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 30, 2016, 12:55:20 AM
Hm.. how would one write this, then? I'm doing two layers right now and it's getting frustrating.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zeila on April 01, 2016, 04:09:48 PM
Are both of these in C minor? If not, what key are they in? Thanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yttJQRZ5cM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXsBks4HRls
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on April 01, 2016, 04:31:49 PM
ahhhh ok I guess you can arrange plague of shadows music because technically it's not shovel knight
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 01, 2016, 06:30:46 PM
I noticed Pianist Da Sootopolis ask about Saying Goodbye on this thread, and a few days ago they had to cancel doing my request. Would you recommend me trying it myself? I don't have Finale (yet), and Saying Goodbye doesn't really sound good for a beginner. Still, I'll keep a note of the time signature and beats per minute somewhere, just in case.

Now that I think about it, the melody vaguely sounds like Staven's Theme...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on April 01, 2016, 06:59:35 PM
it's always good to try it yourself, but like I said in that request thread, I've added it to my Agenda (which is a real life sticky-note object on my wall containing a list of songs I'm planning to arrange)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ōkami~MD on April 01, 2016, 07:06:00 PM
In response to Zeila...

I'm pretty sure the diamond/pearl legendary trio theme starts in c minor but then has some funky modulations into majors and then back into minors so from an 'avoiding accidentals' point of view c minor would probably be the best.

Shovels seems to be based around  Db major (at least that works most when playing the piano whilst it's playing)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 01, 2016, 08:01:32 PM
it's always good to try it yourself, but like I said in that request thread, I've added it to my Agenda (which is a real life sticky-note object on my wall containing a list of songs I'm planning to arrange)
Okay. You didn't post on the thread after Sootopolis resigned, so I wasn't sure. Thanks.

If I ever try to make sheet music, I'll probably start with something simple, like Wild World hourly music. Maybe.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ōkami~MD on April 01, 2016, 08:58:36 PM
Btw.....

Is this song (which I took to be 8/4) mainly 2+2+2+2 beats or 3+3+2. I'm currently arranging it and need to know where the strong beats are. I have a hunch that it swaps in and out several times in the piece but just need someone to verify. The first bit is defiantly 2+2+2+2 but then there are the chords...

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on April 01, 2016, 09:04:14 PM
I think 4/4 works fine, and also more common than 8/4. 
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ōkami~MD on April 01, 2016, 10:04:42 PM
k thanks, I'll see how it looks :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on April 02, 2016, 03:42:41 AM
Are both of these in C minor? If not, what key are they in? Thanks!
Shovel Knight is D flat, starts with an A flat section though. Lake Trio is definitely c minor
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on April 02, 2016, 04:48:10 AM


In this song, I'm pretty confident that the beginning key sig is Ab major (even though there are some D naturals). The second and third keys that it goes into are where I get a little confused. The original sheet on site (this is going to be a replacement) has the second key as E major, but I was thinking it could range anywhere from A major to B major (in terms of sharps). For the final key signature, The sheet on site has Ab major, but based on the first chord in that key I thought it should be Db major. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

Anyone figure these out yet?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on April 02, 2016, 06:11:25 AM
I'd put the second key as A Major even though it switches back and forth between that and B Major, and the final one is probably best as Ab Major because the section in question is 10 quick measures long and shifts between the IV and V chords of that key signature (and is in the V chord, Eb Major, more often than not), eventually resolving back to the tonic chord.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 10:13:08 AM
I thought this would be a good candidate for my hypothetical first sheet music. While it's mostly the same as Zelda's Lullaby, the second melody(?) is absent. I don't want to use pre-existing, fanmade sheet music as reference for my own because that'd feel like stealing. DX
The guitar could give us a hint as to what the time signature is. It sounds like a whole note, an entire measure/bar (not sure which one is which) in 4/4, but Zelda's Lullaby is actually in 3/4 time.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on April 02, 2016, 10:17:38 AM
You can count six 8th notes per measure, so that's a clear indication you're hearing 3/4. It's good you're trying to figure this out on your own!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 10:40:52 AM
Thanks! Of course, I might end up figuring out the notes just to make a remix. XD Still, trying is good. The low-pitched string instrument(?) might be a bit hard to figure out, mind.

Deku Trombonist, would you object to me using your Princess Zelda's Rescue sheet music for reference?

(Someone with great video editing talent needs to make a montage of all the scenes where Zelda's Lullaby plays while each version of that music plays in succession, with seamless transitions.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on April 02, 2016, 02:14:09 PM
or the part where she turns into a ghost and flips out and flies up in the air and wastes like 10 minutes of your time just cause she's a prissy little drama queen
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 03:48:57 PM
Imagine: Lorule Spirit Tracks.

Does Finale cost anything?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on April 02, 2016, 04:23:49 PM
Does Finale cost anything?

Notepad, no. But Notepad unfortunately sucks and also does not allow you to do everything the formatting guidelines require unless you use a template.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: SlowPokemon on April 02, 2016, 04:32:42 PM
I'm sure some of the mods would be willing to help you out by filling in the features absent from Notepad.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on April 02, 2016, 06:36:30 PM
I'd put the second key as A Major even though it switches back and forth between that and B Major, and the final one is probably best as Ab Major because the section in question is 10 quick measures long and shifts between the IV and V chords of that key signature (and is in the V chord, Eb Major, more often than not), eventually resolving back to the tonic chord.
That makes sense. Thanks!

I'm sure some of the mods would be willing to help you out by filling in the features absent from Notepad.
Yep, doesn't even have to be a mod. If you shoot me a PM, I can add any features you need if Notepad can't do it! (Or pretty much anyone with a full version, for that matter.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 07:14:12 PM
I probably won't end up making sheet music for Zelda Wondering (is Finale easy to get used to?), but I'm still trying to figure out the notes of it for a remix I might make. Does the base line go eighth1-eighth2-eighth1-eighth2-quarter1? "2" being an unknown note that's higher than "1", also unknown. I have the pattern as eighthD-eighthF-eighthD-eighthF-quarterD, but the notes could be anything. Don't tell me what they are, because I'd like to figure the actual note names out for myself, I'd just like to know their relative pitches. It almost sounds like there's a beat at the start of the baseline that's being obscured by the guitar.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ōkami~MD on April 02, 2016, 08:58:50 PM

Does the base line go eighth1-eighth2-eighth1-eighth2-quarter1? "2" being an unknown note that's higher than "1", also unknown. I have the pattern as eighthD-eighthF-eighthD-eighthF-quarterD

As far as I can tell the bass line is definitely 8th+8th+8th+8th+8th+8th (straight quavers) and they're based around a triad sometimes in major and sometimes in minor. When there is a harmonising note to the bass note it seems to be a major third above the top note of the triad making a minor into major effect (or vice versa). Using the way you wrote it above I would say: eighth1-eighth2-eighth3-eighth2-eighth3-eighth2 in mostcases, with the first note being covered by a guitar (it's not a rest) but I might just be hearing things  :-\

Is Finale easy to get used to?

I would say so but I haven't used notepad I started with Finale PrintMusic 200(8)?, it's based around different windows containing specific 'tools' that's easy to navigate (and in my opinion much quicker)

Hope I have helped, somehow  ;D

btw nice signature
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 09:35:08 PM
...Does that basically mean there's some sharps in the baseline? I don't know musical theory terminology much, though I am starting to pick some terms up.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ōkami~MD on April 02, 2016, 10:13:59 PM
because of the key the tune starts in (e minor) there should only be one recurring sharp that you would need to worry about, so usually, when the bass is a major triad then yes there will be sharps

....sorry I don't feel I've explained very well
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 10:17:33 PM
To Wikipedia!
Quote
In music, a triad is a set of three notes that can be stacked in thirds.
So eighth1 is actually three notes...?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on April 02, 2016, 10:19:06 PM
The use of sharps (and flats) will be wholly dependent on the notes themselves being used. I can say with certainty that an F# does crop up every now and again in the bass.

ninja'd
So eighth1 is actually three notes...?
Well no, the piece is in 3/4 (three beats, and the quarter note has the beat) and there are six notes being played in each measure. Each note in the bassline is an eighth note.

EDIT: Oh wait, a triad. I read that as "triplet." Oops. Yes, the on-beats in the bassline consist of...actually, I think most of the time they're just two notes. I know you said you don't want the notes themselves given to you, but it might help your comprehension if someone writes up a quick visual of what the bassline is.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 10:21:18 PM
Let me rephrase that: Is eighth1 three notes being played at the same time?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on April 02, 2016, 10:23:03 PM
I edited my post just as you were posting; give it a read. I misread something.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 02, 2016, 10:29:34 PM
Okay then. Now that I've decided that I won't be making sheet music (I'm fickle), I suppose knowing the notes outright wouldn't hurt. But why do I only want to know the baseline? You'll see...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on April 02, 2016, 10:58:53 PM
Here's a mockup of the bassline:
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/7CZIYHf.png)
[close]

I whipped up an MUS file as well for you to look at in case you need to hear the notes as well:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/134076008/Helps/zelda%20wondering.mus
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 03, 2016, 08:32:51 AM
I don't have any software that can open a .mus file. Still, thanks for the baseline.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Th3Gavst3r on April 03, 2016, 10:01:29 AM
I don't have any software that can open a .mus file. Still, thanks for the baseline.

You should definitely download Notepad even if it's just so you can play .mus files. Tbh, that's its only redeeming feature :P
There's always free trials of Finale's 3 paid products too, those'll get you a good season of use which sounds like way more than you need
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 03, 2016, 10:09:42 AM
I've been putting the baseline into FL Studio. It is six repeating measures, right? Just to save me some time.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on April 03, 2016, 08:26:38 PM
To be honest, the GUI of Finale is really off-putting if you're new to the program. You should definitely learn a notation software though, as it will help you develop musically. I actually started off using Sibelius, and *then* moved to Finale after discovering NSM. Lots of other people here started off with Musescore, another good (and FREE) program that is accessible to beginners.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on April 03, 2016, 08:36:11 PM
Oh yeah, MuseScore is tons better than Notepad. Though am I the only one who prefers v1.3 to v2.0?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 03, 2016, 08:39:31 PM
Thanks, everyone who helped me in some way or another! What did you help me make?

(Also, YouTube does this weird thing where it can't save my settings properly when I try to publish the video, so I have to go to the video's page while it's still private so I can finish the description. Help?)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on April 03, 2016, 08:40:19 PM
I used Noteflight for a long time and then converted XML files into Finale... Agh what a mess.
Having now gotten Finale 2014, I can say it's simultaneously the most expensive and most valuable purchase to my music career. Definitely a worthy investment, especially if you can buy a lower value package (you don't need to get 2014).
Long story short: if you can, buy a Finale product of SOME kind. It's loads better than any of the free stuff out there.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ōkami~MD on April 03, 2016, 09:03:19 PM
The main difference I notice from having both Finale PrintMusic (the less expensive) and Finale 2014 is that 2014 comes with Garritan sounds which cost plenty money on their own, and PrintMusic uses SoftSynth sounds which are not great.... but if you want to hear how your document sounds with Garritan you can ask someone with Finale 2014 (like me!) to run it through and make an audio file.

Also, this is probably technically illegal and do it at your own risk, but you can claim to be upgrading from a previous product and just type in a random serial code and you can get a significant discount, but it's probably not worth it for the trouble.

PrintMusic served me well until I started to write much more serious music and I needed better visualisation of how things sound etc.

Of course there are other differences but they can be found on the make music website

EDIT: I am kind of biased towards Finale because I don't like the Sibelius interface as much, that doesn't mean it isn't good, but I can't write how it compares to Finale very well.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on April 03, 2016, 10:28:20 PM
I'll put it this way -- Sibelius, at full power, is best for the orchestral copyist. Finale, at its full power, is best for the engraver preparing a sheet for publication. Different workflows for different needs.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 03, 2016, 10:50:38 PM
Eh, I decided that making sheet music probably isn't my thing. That advice could still be useful for other people, mind.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on April 03, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
Noooooooo

but do give Musescore a try, if nothing else!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 03, 2016, 10:57:15 PM
I just discovered that all fonts display as Arial on PDFs on Wii U browser. Strange.

Anyhow, maybe I'll try Musescore, maybe I won't. First, I need to find the easiest thing possible that hasn't already been done... (The most basic video game songs I've ever heard are 4AM from ACNL and Memory from SPM, both of which already have sheet music on this site.)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zeila on April 08, 2016, 04:31:26 AM
All I need is the key sig pls and ty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07TA4xUCU1I
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on April 08, 2016, 04:36:45 AM
A minor, with a shit ton of chromatics.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ōkami~MD on April 08, 2016, 06:58:15 PM
Anyhow, maybe I'll try Musescore, maybe I won't. First, I need to find the easiest thing possible that hasn't already been done... (The most basic video game songs I've ever heard are 4AM from ACNL and Memory from SPM, both of which already have sheet music on this site.)

You could try Sei-an city commoner's quarters. Most of it is quite sparse and when there are chords it's usually simple progressions


btw this is cool music

and there are midis that can help you
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 08, 2016, 07:15:59 PM
Reminds me, I've had Okamiden for over a year and still haven't finished it... and I've had Okami for months but still haven't gotten to the first dungeon... this is why I shouldn't watch let's plays before buying a game. DX

I don't like to download MIDIs because they might give my computer viruses.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ōkami~MD on April 08, 2016, 07:23:24 PM
playitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayitplayit

mmmmkay still this music should be okay without midis
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nitro Indigo on April 08, 2016, 11:08:53 PM
So is Okami's music stored in a way that allows one to split it up into its component parts? In other words, could you do a soundfont-edit of some Okami music, the kind of remixes that Bespinben hates? I don't know how files work...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Ōkami~MD on April 09, 2016, 07:19:18 PM
I suppose yes.

When I open midi files I get the option to seperate out all channels as tracks. This means each instrument has it's own 'track' or audio file that can be edited on it's own. Because of the thin texture of the sei-an city music it should be very easy to make a soundfont remix, but I guess that also depends on the software

¡ɔısnɯʇǝǝɥsuıu ʇnoqɐ spuǝıɹɟ ɹnoʎ ןןǝʇ oʇ ǝɹns ǝq
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: shadowhunter301 on April 22, 2016, 09:39:00 PM
Can anyone tell me what key and time signature this song is in? Thank you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5CYQk1SYHQ
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on April 22, 2016, 09:45:00 PM
6/8 but I'm too lazy to do key
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: shadowhunter301 on April 22, 2016, 09:48:01 PM
That's perfectly fine! Thank you soo much.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on April 22, 2016, 10:21:44 PM
C-minor. Either 3/4 or a slow 6/8. The Bpm around Q=80 or 8th=80/Q.=30
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on April 23, 2016, 06:14:51 AM
Time and Key signature for this song plz!

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on April 23, 2016, 12:44:14 PM
I think the time signature is 2/4, and the key signature B-major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: shadowhunter301 on April 29, 2016, 02:08:34 AM
What key and time is this in?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on April 29, 2016, 02:19:58 AM
What key and time is this in?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U)
Time sig: 4/4
Key sig: Starts off in G major (1 sharp). Somewhere around 1:10 to 1:20 changes to A major (3 sharps). 3:20 or so- changes to Bb major (2 flats). 3:40- changes to B major (5 sharps). 3:55ish- changes to C#/Db major (6 sharps, 5 flats).

That should be it!

*Hint: Use YouTube tags to directly link the video into the post like this:
Code: [Select]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI3C9qQlb1U[/youtube]
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: shadowhunter301 on April 29, 2016, 02:23:19 AM
Thank you Transcriber!!! <3
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on April 29, 2016, 02:39:28 AM
using youtube tags wasn't necessary for a while, but all of a sudden they are.  DEKU?!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on April 29, 2016, 03:02:38 AM
using youtube tags wasn't necessary for a while, but all of a sudden they are.  DEKU?!
Oh, sorry Noc, they aren't required. My bad. I was just showing that url tags do not work. (I actually didn't know that it worked without YouTube tags, thanks for the tip!)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on April 29, 2016, 03:16:03 AM
oh ok heh I thought it didn't work anymore mb
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: shadowhunter301 on April 30, 2016, 02:28:04 AM

Thank you anyone! :)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on April 30, 2016, 02:38:47 AM

Thank you anyone! :)

This is a nice song; I like it! Time sig is 3/4, key sig is C major. At 0:48 you could change to A major, but I don't know if it is long enough to warrant a key change. Might be. Someone else could clarify that.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: shadowhunter301 on April 30, 2016, 03:15:41 AM
Thanks TMP! 😙
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on June 08, 2016, 02:30:09 AM
Time and key sig plz.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on June 08, 2016, 02:35:34 AM
4/4, Db...minor? It's one of those modes that makes it sound Arabic, so I hesitate to say "minor" specifically.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on June 08, 2016, 02:42:01 AM
melodic minor?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on June 08, 2016, 02:49:59 AM
This one bounces between a couple key sigs, at least in what I'm hearing. It starts out as Db...something. It seems minor-ish, but the presence of F's also gives it a kind of major sound. 4 measures in it changes into something resembling G minor, which continues for 4 measures. This pattern repeats, and then it sounds like it might go into Gb minor for 8 measures. This is a rough guess, and I don't even know if it is 100% right, nor if you need to change this often. I tried.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on June 08, 2016, 03:55:50 AM
Ughh....I can't do key changes like that in notepad....someone's gonna have to make a blank sheet like that for me.....
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on June 08, 2016, 05:14:13 PM
Here you go, (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qh8fbyh9wcmc1dt/The%20Tenacious%20Tentacled%20Terror.mus?dl=1) Brainy. I put in all the details for the sheet (title, game, etc), but you might want to double check my copyright.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on June 08, 2016, 07:25:54 PM
Thanks TMP! You're the best!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on June 15, 2016, 04:35:06 AM
Is it just me or does it seem like this song is in swing tempo?


Also, here is the sheet to see the note structure.
mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9vs025bjg0xwuw/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Green%20Garden.mus?dl=1)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on June 15, 2016, 04:42:54 AM
I'm counting it straight
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on June 15, 2016, 04:59:59 AM
Thanks Nocturne.

I guess it is just a little on the jazzy side in terms of note structure (for bass anyway).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on June 15, 2016, 05:31:00 AM
Mm, I dunno, it sounds swingy to me. The problem is that the way I'm counting it, it seems like the sixteenths are the notes being swung, and not the eighths. I'm not sure how you'd notate that.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on June 15, 2016, 06:30:25 AM
Yeah! Green Garden! I've always liked this track

I'd put it in a slow 4/4 with swing 16ths.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Shadoninja on June 15, 2016, 07:59:38 AM
I would have it as a fast 4/4 with swing 8ths. have the tempo marking as half note = 110~
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on June 15, 2016, 12:08:28 PM
After looking at all your suggestions, I am leaning towards shadoninja's suggestion.

I really could have done it either way, but I opted for a faster tempo since it is a lot less cluttered than it was. It is also more convenient since there is a marking for an 8th swing tempo, and it will be played back as expected.

Thanks for the help everyone!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on June 15, 2016, 01:30:10 PM
Green Garden. I love that one!

I'd put it in a slow 4/4 with swing 16ths.
Personally, I'd go with this.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on June 15, 2016, 02:05:48 PM
It's yrou sheet so obviously it's up to you what you do with it. But I'll just throw this out there anyway: Does beat 1 of bar 2, 4...etc (of your version) really feel like beat 1 when you listen to the track?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on June 15, 2016, 03:33:51 PM
hmmm, I know what your getting at. The song is definitely in 4/4, I overlooked that :P

I'll have to see what I can do about the tempo marking... Is it possible to create that kind of tempo marking in Finale?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on June 15, 2016, 05:05:10 PM
If no one else can help, I should be able to mess around with it tomorrow night.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on June 15, 2016, 07:52:43 PM
http://makemusic.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1463/~/swing-16th-notes (http://makemusic.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1463/~/swing-16th-notes)

I found this online. The description that it gives implies that it would also be possible to swing any note value (except whole and 64th), based on whatever the beat unit is. So in this case, to swing 16th notes the time signature would have to be changed to 8/8. I am not sure if this will work with an associated direction so that it can be saved to a mus file though...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on June 16, 2016, 01:31:42 AM
If you're going to use swing, you'd be better off just doing what shado said. It's unorthodox in common notation practice to swing any note value other than the eighth note.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on June 16, 2016, 02:27:33 AM
If you're going to use swing, you'd be better off just doing what shado said. It's unorthodox in common notation practice to swing any note value other than the eighth note.

I am definitely going to stick with the swing tempo. It looks a lot more organized with, than without.

Now I am going to go stick my head and the freezer for an hour or two. Who would have thought that I would find this discussion more confusing than matrix calculations! Of course, that means I am more likely to retain this knowledge for future reference. Thanks for all the input everyone.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on June 16, 2016, 03:12:40 AM
I was just doing some research on metre, and would it be more appropriate to use 4/2 time with this setup, or is it not that common? It counts the same as 4/4, but is just twice as long.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on June 16, 2016, 03:21:11 AM
Finally listened to it. I would not use 4/2 at all. Never would I see a funk-esque chart like this in a meter like 4/2. No need to over-complicate things.

I would have it as a fast 4/4 with swing 8ths. have the tempo marking as half note = 110~

I would do this with the exception of putting it in cut time.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on June 16, 2016, 03:40:56 AM
If you want 4/4 with swing 16ths. Comes with bonus cleanup. Free delivery. Just 3 easy payments of $9.99. Global Deku Direct.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84117653/Assistance/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Green%20Garden.mus

Olimar: There are definitely plenty of charts out there with swing 16ths, and I've played quite a few myself.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on June 16, 2016, 04:24:46 AM
If you want 4/4 with swing 16ths. Comes with bonus cleanup. Free delivery. Just 3 easy payments of $9.99. Global Deku Direct.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84117653/Assistance/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Green%20Garden.mus

lol, thanks Deku, Do you accept visas! :D
I spent forever trying to figure out how the bass for m7 flows.

I will now return to my hovel and arrange this song (finally!). I am probably going to invest in Finale soon, since I enjoy writing down music so much, both for arrangements as well as my own stuff.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: TheMarioPianist on June 16, 2016, 05:04:37 AM
Is it just me or does it seem like this song is in swing tempo?


Also, here is the sheet to see the note structure.
mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9vs025bjg0xwuw/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Green%20Garden.mus?dl=1)
Uhh...I'm definitely getting swing outta this...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on June 16, 2016, 05:55:03 AM
Olimar: There are definitely plenty of charts out there with swing 16ths, and I've played quite a few myself.

psh hardly (and double time feel doesn't count, either). Jazz is all about the 8th note, so you won't find it there lol.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on June 16, 2016, 01:29:49 PM
Nope, not talking about double time. I mean I have played a number of charts over the past couple of years which were in 4/4 with swung 16ths (for big band). Of course they're not the norm, but they are out there.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on June 16, 2016, 06:17:02 PM
Must be newer stuff. Normally in jazz the sixteenth note is straight when the eighth is swung.

Off the to if my head:


Ack, couldn't find McConnell's Boss Brass version, but this will do.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Deku Trombonist on June 17, 2016, 02:22:23 AM
Tunes like Cissy Strut and The Chicken, charts like Can't Take My Eyes Off You and Easy (yeah Lionel Richie!), and anything else in a 16th note shuffle groove.

But yeah it took a moment to get the hang of it the first time I read it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: LifeMushroom on June 22, 2016, 09:23:40 PM
What key is this?
https://youtu.be/Ez9I03-TpSE
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on June 22, 2016, 09:25:03 PM
A major (3 sharps).

EDIT: Dudeman is correct: A minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on June 22, 2016, 09:26:28 PM
Mm, I think it's A minor, actually.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Sebastian on June 22, 2016, 09:28:10 PM
Oh dang. I spoke to soon. Welp.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on June 22, 2016, 09:35:50 PM
well we know it's a minor but which one

hahaha I'm so funny laugh at me
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: LifeMushroom on June 22, 2016, 09:38:14 PM
I thought it was A minor too.
EDIT: Someone's already arranging this
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on July 08, 2016, 04:00:08 AM
G minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Lenny Face on July 09, 2016, 01:26:18 PM
What key and time signature is this in?



I have a feeling it's in swing 4/4 and E flat major but I'm not so sure.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: AwesomeYears on July 09, 2016, 01:29:26 PM
It is in 4/4 Swung Time but the key signature is Bb Major. (I'm pretty sure)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Pianist Da Sootopolis on July 09, 2016, 05:24:47 PM
4/4 swing, B flat major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on July 09, 2016, 06:02:09 PM
It's absolutely not swing. There are running triplets constantly throughout the entire piece, as well as some syncopated rhythms in the melody that would only make sense in compound time. Use a compound meter, like 12/8.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on July 09, 2016, 11:32:20 PM
^100% agree, just listen to that drum set-definitely not swing. I'd probably use 12/16, but that's just me.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on July 10, 2016, 12:07:42 AM
What key and time signature is this in?



I have a feeling it's in swing 4/4 and E flat major but I'm not so sure.
I agree it's in compound quadruple meter (I'd probably end up using 12/8 time), but it swings pretty rapidly between a Bb tonic and a C tonic (leaning towards Bb major-like, C minor-like, F-minor-solo-on-dominant-like, and C-double-harmonic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_harmonic_scale)-like). I suspect you may need to rapidly change key signatures or pick a base key signature based on the ones I suggested, then put on a lot of accidentals.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 13, 2016, 09:47:26 AM

Is the first section in 3/4, 6/8 or 12/8? I don't actually know the difference (between 6/8 and 12/8), so an explanation would be nice!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on July 13, 2016, 01:24:44 PM
The difference between 6/8 and 12/8 is akin to the difference between 2/4 and 4/4 - whether the piece relies on 2-beat or 4-beat units.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 13, 2016, 05:37:16 PM
Using that logic (to an extent), is the first section in 6/8?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on July 13, 2016, 06:49:11 PM
It's a little hard to tell, I'm not quite sure (sorry!) I only stopped in to mention the 6/8 12/8 thing because you asked.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mikey on July 14, 2016, 01:07:08 AM
why not just count the whole thing in 4/4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on July 14, 2016, 01:13:18 AM
I'd say 12/8, personally. I don't think two-beat phrases really work here.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on July 14, 2016, 01:23:16 AM
^6/8 would actually work pretty great here. There are two, 2-beat phrases per chord-change, so you could have them one-per-bar without having really long, compound 12/8 measures.

why not just count the whole thing in 4/4

You're joking, right? xD
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 14, 2016, 02:36:45 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/Bko9OAW.png)

Judging by the first 4 measures, 6/8 is probably the most suitable for this.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on July 14, 2016, 03:31:37 AM
whoa, you've turned around the beat there. Half the note values and condense every two measures into one measure.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 14, 2016, 04:34:06 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/W9YctWX.png)

Hmm... Kinda looks off though.
Also I'm going to have to half the note values for the entire arrangement...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on July 14, 2016, 04:36:15 AM
That looks right to me! That's how I'd do it! :D
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 14, 2016, 04:56:30 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/KpZMF28.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/Pgy4UWy.png)

Just a quick comparison here.

I've been taught that 6/8 time goes: 1 + + 2 + +
Compared to 3/4, which goes: 1 + 2 + 3 +

The first image (what I had originally), matches the bassline to the beat of 6/8. The second image (what you're telling me) doesn't match, so I never even considered it when arranging.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on July 14, 2016, 05:07:26 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/KpZMF28.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/Pgy4UWy.png)

Just a quick comparison here.

I've been taught that 6/8 time goes: 1 + + 2 + +
Compared to 3/4, which goes: 1 + 2 + 3 +

The first image (what I had originally), matches the bassline to the beat of 6/8. The second image (what you're telling me) doesn't match, so I never even considered it when arranging.

You would be correct in thinking that, if what you had in the lowest voice there was the bass. Listening to the bass in the youtube video provided, it sounds like the bass is on a low F for two bars (of the second picture) then it goes down to a lower Db for the next to bars. The part you have notated as the lowest voice in this version seems to support the syncopated part in the voice above it. Having that as the bass is why it looks weird.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 14, 2016, 05:52:52 AM
You would be correct in thinking that, if what you had in the lowest voice there was the bass. Listening to the bass in the youtube video provided, it sounds like the bass is on a low F for two bars (of the second picture) then it goes down to a lower Db for the next to two bars.

When I pay more attention to that, I can actually hear it. But there's a priority concern. Should I have what is more audible? Or should I have the proper bassline? It does sound quite different with the proper bassline though.

The part you have notated as the lowest voice in this version seems to support the syncopated part in the voice above it. Having that as the bass is why it looks weird.

(http://i.imgur.com/jsO9DIi.png)

Here's a sample of 2 later measures.

Problem 1: Got any playability suggestions for the left hand?
Problem 2: The chords in the left hand still follow that off-beat rhythm.
Problem 3: Demisemiquavers. There's not really a problem, they just bother me.

Honestly if I look further into the arrangement, the 4/4 sections would look a bit messy with those note values, and I don't want to have an unnecessary tempo change (from 90 to 180).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on July 14, 2016, 06:03:30 AM
1) Perhaps sustained long tones? It's your arrangement, man; I'm just saying that having the actual bass as the lowest voice will make it sound more authentic, rather than doubling that voice like in the previous version.

2) This is not a problem, that is how the original sounds! It's called:
syncopation

3) Again, not an issue. Those note values exist for this vary scenario and there is nothing wrong with using them. It would be played the exact same way if you notated it with one less beam running across the top.

For the 4/4 section that follows, the tempo indication only needs to be a simple q=q. The tempo doesn't change; the only thing that changes is that note value that the beat falls on.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 14, 2016, 07:12:11 AM
1) Perhaps sustained long tones? It's your arrangement, man; I'm just saying that having the actual bass as the lowest voice will make it sound more authentic, rather than doubling that voice like in the previous version.
Got something down. It's honestly not that great and I'll probably have to find a better alternative, but what I have works for now.

2) This is not a problem, that is how the original sounds!
Got it.

3) Again, not an issue. Those note values exist for this vary very scenario and there is nothing wrong with using them. It would be played the exact same way if you notated it with one less beam running across the top.
Yeah, anything shorter than a semiquaver used in mass just bothers me a bit (then again, a lot of small things like this bother me).

For the 4/4 section that follows, the tempo indication only needs to be a simple q=q. The tempo doesn't change; the only thing that changes is that note value that the beat falls on.
So, something like this (https://www.dropbox.com/s/20xulqcixoeyj9d/Last%20Remote%20%281%29.mus?dl=1)? Except that instead of the various tempo change-like messages, you have the q=q, right? Because I use Musescore, I don't have access to a q=q, so I found a slight alternative (until I get it formatted, of course).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on July 14, 2016, 11:22:57 PM
Quote from: WaluigiTime64
Problem 1: Got any playability suggestions for the left hand?

An easy trick you could do is to just remove the lower note on the strong beats where the chords are. So you play the chord, then immediately go down and play 2 bass notes etc. 
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Lenny Face on July 20, 2016, 05:44:02 PM
What time signature and key signature is this in? I'm creating an arrangement of this for a standard orchestra.

I think its E flat Major (my favorite key signature ever)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on July 20, 2016, 11:59:47 PM
It's 4/4 for sure, although the accompaniment rhythm is like 3+3+2.

As for key sig, I think it's in Eb-major, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on July 21, 2016, 12:19:23 AM
Def. Eb major.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on July 21, 2016, 03:42:39 AM
What time signature and key signature is this in? I'm creating an arrangement of this for a standard orchestra.

I think its E flat Major (my favorite key signature ever)
I third E flat major and second 4/4, although it definitely adds more flats to the key at times, and it's also syncopated.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on July 21, 2016, 04:11:48 AM
Lenny, if you're making an arrangement of this, the correct title for this track is "The Starship Travels."

Spoiler

from the official OST:
http://vgmdb.net/album/19454
[close]
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 30, 2016, 12:13:16 PM

MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ue30vbh1v2d3d5/Hartmann%27s%20Youkai%20Girl.mus?dl=1)

Main things I need help with:
 - Beaming in 7/8
 - Knowing if those sections are 7/8 in the first place
 - Key signatures (excluding Measures 57-72 (which actually ARE in A Minor), and Measures 73-88 (which are in either A Sharp (which I put) or B Flat Minor))

Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on July 30, 2016, 08:21:52 PM
Bars 1-12 are, indeed, in 7/8 time.

Key signature help:
Bars 1-24: E minor (A strong Phrygian influence (mainly use of F natural) obscures the E tonic here. I'm going with Olimar12345-style key signatures for now.)
Bars 25-56: E flat minor a.k.a. D sharp minor (I generally default to E flat minor because I'm a big fan of secondary dominants and I keep thinking that the natural on the leading tone counts as a natural when I think about how many accidentals a key signature sounds like it has. Secondary dominants are more readable with heavy-flat key signatures than heavy-sharp key signatures--secondary dominants in heavy-sharp key signatures tend to need double sharps.)
Bars 89-112 (end): E minor again (This sounds like Bars 1-24.)

You got the rest of the key signatures correct.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 30, 2016, 10:02:58 PM
I'm going with Olimar12345-style key signatures for now.
I have absolutely no idea what this means.

Thanks for the help! Much appreciated.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on July 30, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
I have absolutely no idea what this means.

I was referring to this quote that Olimar12345 re-posted in the "Key Signature for Modes?" thread:
That way of identifying the key signature through my experience requires more unnecessary work. It's as if you're working the possibilities of all four answer choices of a multiple choice math problem rather than use a formula to solve the problem at hand; it works, but seems like more work than it needs to be. I've found that identifying tonic first makes it simple: once you know that note is tonic, identify if it is in a major or minor tonality, then use any regularly reoccurring oddities to that as pointers for the mode. For example: I hear that a piece has a definite tonic pitch of A and sounds like it's in minor, easy: A minor. Then I notice there are a lot of F sharps throughout, I might want to consider if it is in the Dorian mode. Just remember that the modes are split into major and minor categories:

Phrygian, Aeolian, and Dorian are the minor modes, ordered from most lowered pitches to least.

Mixolydian, Ionian, and Lydian represent the major modes, again ordered from most lowered pitches to least (with Lydian having a raised pitch (4)).

Locrian is the bastard child mode, being based on the seventh scaled degree and essentially being a "diminished" mode (and being pretty damn hard to tonicize lol).

Although being able to recognize these modes in music can be extremely useful, I would never notate them using the key signature. I reserve that spot for displaying tonic, using accidentals to represent the modes. For example, C Lydian would be written in C major with the F sharps written out. This way at first glance the performer may more easily identify that C is tonic and the alterations are clearly marked. I would almost argue that this way would display the mode BETTER than having it all of the accidentals in the key signature because the performer is treated to an abundance of clarity, both with the identification of tonic (when you see one flat in the key signature, you instinctively think "F major or D minor" before the rest of the modes) and the manual visual representation of the altered pitches that characterize the specific mode.

Man I think I'm rambling lol.
I generally agree with him, but none of my music theory books do--they'd notate E Phrygian just like you've currently notated Bar 1: no accidentals in the key signature.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: FireArrow on July 30, 2016, 10:23:38 PM
I'd make those 4/4 sections 8/8.

Actually nevermind it's pretty distinctly 4/4 especially later on.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 31, 2016, 12:41:44 AM
So, we good? (https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ue30vbh1v2d3d5/Hartmann%27s%20Youkai%20Girl.mus?dl=1)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on August 01, 2016, 09:52:39 PM
Key signature-wise, you're good!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on August 01, 2016, 10:05:52 PM
Yeah, it's just the 7/8 beaming now.

I have it set to 3+2+2, which I think works for this song. Would this be correct?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on August 08, 2016, 10:46:07 PM
For the most part I was able to figure this song out pretty good, but from m21 to m28 I am not sure what the timing is. Luckily the notes were easy to figure out. I thought it was 3/4 but it doesn't line up correctly

mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6bkdh1vh7ksn0ab/Bomberman%2064%20-%20Masker.mus?dl=1)
0:22
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on August 09, 2016, 03:52:40 AM
PetrifiedLasagna, I'd notate that section in 4/4 time--it uses the 3-3-3-3-2-2 rhythmic pattern I've heard so often.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: PetrifiedLasagna on August 10, 2016, 02:38:13 AM
I was able to find a helpful article to educate myself on divisive/additive rhythm. It gave the example of runaway by Bon Jovi using it (3-3-3-3-2-2) which was easily recognizable since I am learning that song ;D

http://rhythm.thw88z.com/3-3-3-3-2-2.html (http://rhythm.thw88z.com/3-3-3-3-2-2.html)

Thanks for the pointer Dekkadeci.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on September 05, 2016, 11:36:38 PM
I just made a two piano duet of Pokémon GO Gym battle theme, but I'm not sure if I got it right. Is it just me or does sections A and F sound a bit weird? I'm thinking particualarly about the rhythmic chords in the tenor register.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Pokemon%20GO/Battle%21%20%28Gym%20Leader%29%20%28Two%20Pianos%29.zip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye78aoUtqOY
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Gamma-Ray on September 07, 2016, 12:43:34 AM
Trying to arrange some XD: Gale of Darkness music, but can't figure the (different) time signatures in this one. Obviously the beginning is in 4/4, but the amount of tempo shifts make it impossible for me to identify time signature changes and triplets. Would appreciate any help.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on October 17, 2016, 09:44:28 PM
I started arranging the main them from Skylanders: Imaginators. But the rhythm of the song confuses me. I can't tell if it's in 4/4 or 12/8. The first part seem to be in 4/4 and the second in 12/8, or that the 1st part uses 16ths and the second triplets, but I'm not sure if I'm right. 

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Magic Mole on October 20, 2016, 07:21:32 PM
Would someone mind telling me the key/time sig of this boi (it changes in the middle too):
Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Maelstrom on October 20, 2016, 08:27:28 PM
Starts in 4/4, you could stick the guitar part in 2/4 with an extra beat here and there for those weird spots, and the 2nd half is undoubtedly 6/8.

Can't wait to see the finished product.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on October 20, 2016, 08:38:12 PM
I started arranging the main them from Skylanders: Imaginators. But the rhythm of the song confuses me. I can't tell if it's in 4/4 or 12/8. The first part seem to be in 4/4 and the second in 12/8, or that the 1st part uses 16ths and the second triplets, but I'm not sure if I'm right. 


So I finished the arrangement, but I'm really not sure if the rhythm is correct. I'm really not sure whether it should be triplets or 16ths. So it would great if someone could take a look and see if it's good.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Skylanders%20Imaginators/Main%20Theme.zip
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Th3Gavst3r on October 20, 2016, 11:08:44 PM
So I finished the arrangement, but I'm really not sure if the rhythm is correct. I'm really not sure whether it should be triplets or 16ths. So it would great if someone could take a look and see if it's good.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24842881/Skylanders%20Imaginators/Main%20Theme.zip

I'd say that the entire song should be in 12/8 and the melody should have triplets instead of 16ths.

If you notice, in beginning section it really feels like the horns and chords are out of sync. I think the reason for this is that if the song is in 12/8, the rhythm for the low chords could be written more like this:
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/SkYwzLs.png)
[close]
When listening to that rhythm, it feels like the bass is coming in late because it's not exactly on the 'and' of beat 3. This weird syncopation doesn't happen in the second second half of the song because all of the chords start on beat 2 exactly, which makes it sound a lot more like correct 12/8 time.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on October 20, 2016, 11:32:59 PM
Well y. It kind of looks like a 12/8 with all the triplets. But when I'm trying to do it in 12/8, it sounds way to slow. In fact when I was thinking about the rhythm you highlighted in the picture, I was thinking about having it as a duplet. And I'm also really unsure about the right hand melody. The notes sound very quick, as if they're 16ths. But it's even more confusing in m.2 when you can hear the later 2 notes in the RH play simultaneously as the LH chord. 
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Th3Gavst3r on October 21, 2016, 12:19:12 AM
About M.2, when the song is arranged in 12/8 time the simultaneous LH and RH makes sense. It's pretty clear that if you use 4/4 time, on M.2 beat 3 the LH plays a quarter-note triplet. However, if you replicate that same rhythm in 12/8 and also use an eighth-note triplet in the RH, we can see that they line up perfectly, just as they should:
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/ohu2Kjt.png)
[close]

I'm not sure what you mean about it sounding too slow in 12/8, but I'm pretty sure this is how it should sound after scrutinizing the original. Here's an example with a triplet metronome running:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38825902/ShareX/2016/10/timing%20example_1.mp4
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on October 21, 2016, 03:05:19 AM
Would someone mind telling me the key/time sig of this boi (it changes in the middle too):
Thanks!
Starts in D minor, switches to F sharp minor at ~1:50, switches back to D minor at ~2:05 (good job using an A major chord as a pivot). Note the D Dorian-like passages around ~1:38 and ~1:45.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on October 21, 2016, 09:02:02 PM
About M.2, when the song is arranged in 12/8 time the simultaneous LH and RH makes sense. It's pretty clear that if you use 4/4 time, on M.2 beat 3 the LH plays a quarter-note triplet. However, if you replicate that same rhythm in 12/8 and also use an eighth-note triplet in the RH, we can see that they line up perfectly, just as they should:
Spoiler
(http://i.imgur.com/ohu2Kjt.png)
[close]

I'm not sure what you mean about it sounding too slow in 12/8, but I'm pretty sure this is how it should sound after scrutinizing the original. Here's an example with a triplet metronome running:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38825902/ShareX/2016/10/timing%20example_1.mp4


First of all, M.2 wasn't really an issue, in fact it was the only time I was sure about the rhythm. All the other measures is where I wasn't sure about the rhythm, except for the later part which clearly has a 12/8 feel.

Listening more to the song. It seems like it's something in between a triplet and 16ths. Or like the second note, on the 2nd strong beat (2 or 4), seems a bit delayed so that the triplets/16ths gets faster.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Th3Gavst3r on October 21, 2016, 09:39:36 PM
After listening to this even more, I think the horn soloist just had bad tempo and kept rushing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At this point I'd just say pick whichever meter you like best, but judging from the bass rhythm and the triplets in the string section starting at M.10 I would personally pick 12/8. This is your arrangement after all though, so the decision is yours to make!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on October 21, 2016, 09:40:51 PM
After listening to this even more, I think the horn soloist just had bad tempo and kept rushing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
At this point I'd just say pick whichever meter you like best, but judging from the bass rhythm and the triplet string chords starting at M.10 I would personally pick 12/8. This is your arrangement after all though, so the decision is yours to make!

I definitely agree with you that the rhythm really is dubious.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on October 23, 2016, 04:34:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbzEjfZKFSA
I finished my arrangement of this song, but I have yet to put in a key signature. Help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on October 23, 2016, 06:38:29 AM
I'm getting F Major, but with a lot of variance because it's a Pokémon battle theme.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on October 23, 2016, 08:40:21 AM
I'm getting F Major, but with a lot of variance because it's a Pokémon battle theme.
^This. I'm hearing bits of E Minor and A Major/Minor later on too.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Nep-Nep on November 05, 2016, 07:12:11 PM
Ok, here is the first one. The soundtrack for this pretty tricky for me and my main weakness are time sigs and key sigs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPeaoYNzgpw&list=PLiGvWycRgz6hNoJjlk71C_tLz22CeB2Sb
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on November 05, 2016, 07:19:01 PM
Definitely 4/4. I'm pretty sure it's in D minor (one flat).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Zeila on November 06, 2016, 04:17:48 AM
I just need the key sigs, thanks in advance!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on November 06, 2016, 04:35:06 AM
I feel like both of them are in A Minor, but with a lot of variation.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on November 12, 2016, 03:04:26 PM
Time signature and where is the beat?

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Oronoco on November 12, 2016, 06:22:28 PM
Hooray! More Ranger! You and FireArrow really made my morning.
I'd put it in 3/4. The flute melody begins on the and of 1, and the string chords fall on the off-beats. Cymbal crashes fall on the downbeat.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on November 24, 2016, 09:17:07 PM

I'm only unsure about the first section's time signature. Something makes me want to say it's not 4/4 (such as the random 2/4 measures).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on November 24, 2016, 09:19:47 PM
I think it's really just that: there's a 2/4 measure every 8 bars in the opening section. It's not frequent enough to warrant a completely different time signature imo.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on November 25, 2016, 09:28:22 AM
I think it's really just that: there's a 2/4 measure every 8 bars in the opening section. It's not frequent enough to warrant a completely different time signature imo.
Yeah, I felt like that was the case. I just got confused by the bassline.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Lkjhgfdsa_77 on December 18, 2016, 09:28:19 PM

 - key signature, all natural works fine (no major sections where I put a lot of accidentals), maybe E Minor, but then the LH would have naturals running on the F from 0:35 - 1:06; the trumpet in 0:38 - 0:43 seems to be in B flat but then the violin (?) directly after has a B natural? I have NotePad so I couldn't just change it whenever I wanted to...
 - time signature for first 30 seconds (plus beat placement and BPM), the majority if the piece is in 4/4 (with 3/4 starting at 2:26); I attempted to arrange it in the same 4/4 timing as the rest of the piece, it worked fine but I decide to put a bunch of caesura in to compensate, wondering if there's a better alternative.
As aforementioned I use NotePad so if you want to put some special changes onto the arrangement that would be great!


V Arrangement of first part (0:00 - 2:26) V
Legend of Skyloft (pt 1)||The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
30
65%, gets really weird but most of the notes are there.mid (https://www.dropbox.com/s/izftwagp333wpyi/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.mid?dl=0)
.mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhg56sx5py8dlfm/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.mus?dl=0)
.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccpx0dbmpk257tx/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.pdf?dl=0)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on December 23, 2016, 11:42:10 PM
I get the feeling that this isn't in 4/4 time. 12/8 maybe?
halp
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on December 23, 2016, 11:47:28 PM
It's a march with triplets, although I'm hearing some places with what sounds like sixteenths in there as well. I'd use 12/8 personally.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on December 24, 2016, 01:54:44 AM
If I was going the march route, I'd def use 6/8 over 12/8.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on December 30, 2016, 04:13:44 PM

The key for this song is weird, and after discussing it with Latios, I think it isn't what I have written, but something else...
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: braixen1264 on December 31, 2016, 03:22:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF8iHFM5mBI
I put that it starts as Dmaj, then changes to Abmaj at 0:26, and changes again to Gmaj at 0:42, and back to Dmaj when it loops at 0:45.

If someone could double-check for me that'd be cool
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: AwesomeYears on January 22, 2017, 07:28:51 AM

Might go for a hard song, and GT3's OST is pretty damn great. I'm assuming C Minor, 4/4 and around 120 BPM tempo.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on January 22, 2017, 09:39:33 AM
I think it might be in a D key signature, but full notation might say otherwise.

Also I love this song now.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: LeviR.star on February 13, 2017, 05:27:08 AM

2nd most obscure Kirby game, next to BS Kirby's Toy Box; this game, however, is less known. The song starts at 0:59. This was my best source. It's tricky finding out the key because there's no bass and the song only lasts 2 measures.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: AmpharosAndy on March 06, 2017, 01:59:30 PM
Don't know if you've already sorted it out but I would say A major as that's what it's in for two phrases out of three, then it's F minor. Maybe just not having a key might be better?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: LeviR.star on March 06, 2017, 07:53:23 PM
Don't know if you've already sorted it out but I would say A major as that's what it's in for two phrases out of three, then it's F minor. Maybe just not having a key might be better?

Yeah, I think it would be better without one. Thanks, Andy!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on March 06, 2017, 08:36:53 PM
I wrote it out, and it feels like the whole thing's in F Minor. There's just some naturals/flats to throw you off.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: LeviR.star on March 06, 2017, 09:34:03 PM
I wrote it out, and it feels like the whole thing's in F Minor. There's just some naturals/flats to throw you off.

F minor, got it! Thanks, Waluigi!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Lkjhgfdsa_77 on March 06, 2017, 10:55:21 PM

 - key signature, all natural works fine (no major sections where I put a lot of accidentals), maybe E Minor, but then the LH would have naturals running on the F from 0:35 - 1:06; the trumpet in 0:38 - 0:43 seems to be in B flat but then the violin (?) directly after has a B natural? I have NotePad so I couldn't just change it whenever I wanted to...
 - time signature for first 30 seconds (plus beat placement and BPM), the majority if the piece is in 4/4 (with 3/4 starting at 2:26); I attempted to arrange it in the same 4/4 timing as the rest of the piece, it worked fine but I decide to put a bunch of caesura in to compensate, wondering if there's a better alternative.
As aforementioned I use NotePad so if you want to put some special changes onto the arrangement that would be great!


V Arrangement of first part (0:00 - 2:26) V
Legend of Skyloft (pt 1)||The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword
30
65%, gets really weird but most of the notes are there.mid (https://www.dropbox.com/s/izftwagp333wpyi/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.mid?dl=0)
.mus (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mhg56sx5py8dlfm/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.mus?dl=0)
.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ccpx0dbmpk257tx/The%20Legend%20of%20Zelda%20Skyward%20Sword%20-%20Legend%20of%20Skyloft%20pt%201.pdf?dl=0)
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: AmpharosAndy on March 08, 2017, 02:47:42 PM
the trumpet in 0:38 - 0:43 seems to be in B flat but then the violin (?) directly after has a B natural?
That's what I'm hearing too. The trumpet fanfare is just playing in the wrong key probably for dramatic effect.
- time signature for first 30 seconds (plus beat placement and BPM), the majority if the piece is in 4/4 (with 3/4 starting at 2:26); I attempted to arrange it in the same 4/4 timing as the rest of the piece, it worked fine but I decide to put a bunch of caesura in to compensate, wondering if there's a better alternative.
If there is I can't think of one. That works fine for me most of the time :) The intro reminds me a lot of the intro of 'Feste Romane' by Respighi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2EPHoMlqnk) and the score for that uses lots of tempo changes and pauses instead of caesuras. If it's a piano arrangement it's probably best not having tempo changes everywhere otherwise it might be daunting to play?


Also

Wii fit plaza.
Planning on submitting this soon, when latios has more time, but I need to know what time sig to put it in?? I believe that it is in 9/8.
I had it as 6/8 for a while but the phrases are always going over the barline/three dotted crotchets long. Am I incorrect?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on March 08, 2017, 04:28:58 PM
9/8 is right.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on March 11, 2017, 10:09:30 PM
Just the key. I'm getting that sometimes, G, D, and A are sharp, but not everytime.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on March 11, 2017, 10:11:11 PM
seems like A minor but I haven't listened closely yet
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on March 11, 2017, 10:12:44 PM
seems like A minor but I haven't listened closely yet
After long consideration and thought, I also believe it is A minor with accidentals interspersed here and there.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on March 11, 2017, 10:15:09 PM
So do I need to change my accidentals to flats?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on March 11, 2017, 10:16:57 PM
Depends. Where are the accidentals in question?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on March 11, 2017, 10:18:20 PM
Scattered all throughout the piece. G#, D#, & A#. They are for the most part always sharped, but not always.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on March 11, 2017, 10:19:20 PM
Depends on each individual chord.

Also G#, D# and A# in flats would be Ab, Eb and Bb, which seem oddly perfect.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on March 11, 2017, 10:23:26 PM
Depends on each individual chord.

Also G#, D# and A# in flats would be Ab, Eb and Bb, which seem oddly perfect.
Flats do seem to make more sense.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on March 11, 2017, 10:25:20 PM
Depends on each individual chord.
Honestly though, we're going to have to see the whole sheet first.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on March 11, 2017, 10:25:39 PM
But in A minor, you'd be more likely to see a G# (raised seventh).

You really can't just say, it's dependent on context.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on March 11, 2017, 10:27:32 PM
Large image
(http://i.imgur.com/YlGwHI9.jpg)
[close]
That's a portion of the sheet; I'm not at home and the WiFi at the hotel stinks.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on March 11, 2017, 10:31:04 PM
That's a portion of the sheet; I'm not at home and the WiFi at the hotel stinks.
My lack of expertise says go with flats. It might be a good idea if you get input from someone who's more experienced, though.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on March 11, 2017, 10:32:12 PM
A better picture with more accidentals
(http://i.imgur.com/xg7NIZd.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on March 11, 2017, 10:32:57 PM
I'm seeing a ton of flat opportunities in the LH (I saw F and C Minor), but a ton of sharp opportunities in the RH. It really depends on each individual measure.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 11, 2017, 10:37:02 PM
Sounds like A minor to me (at least in the first ten seconds).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on March 11, 2017, 10:41:06 PM
Sounds like A minor to me (at least in the first ten seconds).
It's A Minor throughout the piece (I think).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on March 11, 2017, 10:45:44 PM
It's A Minor throughout the piece (I think).
Definitely A minor throughout. No doubt about it.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Bespinben on March 11, 2017, 11:01:43 PM
Hitchhikers Guide to Minor Key Accidentals:
1 - diatonic
b2 - parallel Phrygian
2 - diatonic
b3 - diatonic
3 - Picardy 3rd
4 - diatonic
#4 - 3rd of V/V secondary dominant (note: b5 is uncommon)
5 - diatonic
b6 - diatonic
6 - parallel Dorian
b7 - diatonic
7 - raised 7th of harmonic minor
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on March 11, 2017, 11:03:33 PM
cool story bro but what does that mean
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on March 11, 2017, 11:08:22 PM
What we need is a translator. Is there a translator in the house?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: AmpharosAndy on March 11, 2017, 11:18:50 PM
Scales yo
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on March 11, 2017, 11:32:30 PM
O_o So A Minor? >_<
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on March 11, 2017, 11:33:29 PM
O_o So A Minor? >_<
To sum everything up, yes.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Altissimo on March 11, 2017, 11:38:20 PM
general tendency is chromatic lower/upper neighbors take on the form of the lower note (ex. E-D#-E rather than E-Eb-E), ascending scales take sharps, descending scales take flats.

other general rule of thumb. look at any vertical harmony. if it can be spelled as a series of thirds rather than something else (ex. A C# E versus A Db E), give it the thirds treatment.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on March 11, 2017, 11:45:08 PM
Wait, Ben's post is starting to make some sense...
So it would be (for, say, an A scale)
A, Bb, B, Cb(?), C, D, D#, E, Fb(?), F, Gb, G?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on March 12, 2017, 12:20:01 AM
Rip Ben's really useful chart. Now do enharmonics

@Egadd: yes, the numbers in Ben's post correlate with the letter names in a scale, ascending. Numbers are useful because you can apply them to any key by simply making tonic 1.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Brassman388 on March 12, 2017, 12:49:08 AM
Hitchhikers Guide to Minor Key Accidentals:
1 - diatonic
b2 - parallel Phrygian
2 - diatonic
b3 - diatonic
3 - Picardy 3rd
4 - diatonic
#4 - 3rd of V/V secondary dominant (note: b5 is uncommon)
5 - diatonic
b6 - diatonic
6 - parallel Dorian
b7 - diatonic
7 - raised 7th of harmonic minor

Nice.

Also, I'm going to need some harmonies, but from just glancing at it, those E-sharps can be written as F-naturals. Basic melodic writing says that if you have a line going up, and there's an altered note, say, sharped, then it continues upward, then it should be written as a sharp. BUT, if you have a sharped note, then the line immediately goes down, then it would be wise to flat that note instead. For instance, the third to the last bar, you have a D-sharp going to a D-natural. Now, if harmonically there's a D-sharp in the spelling, then it's pretty kosher to keep it a D-sharp, but not always for the sake of the performer. But if it's just an altered tone having nothing to do with the harmonic spelling whatsoever, then I would go ahead and write it as an E-flat to a D-natural.

Does this make sense?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: LuxraySpiral on March 24, 2017, 04:32:16 AM

I'm convinced it starts off as G major, but it doesn't use any F#s, only F neutrals, so it might actually be C major. (The same goes for the Bb/Eb at the end)

Then comes the problem about the timing of the modulation. 0:23 and 0:35 are my two possibilities at the moment (I'm leaning towards the 0:35)

What does you guys think?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on March 24, 2017, 04:35:19 AM
Definitely G Major, and I would put the modulation at 0:35 as well (that's Bb Major).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Latios212 on March 24, 2017, 04:36:45 AM
^G to Bb is right. The F naturals you see are from the use of mixolydian mode.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: LuxraySpiral on March 24, 2017, 05:28:49 AM
Ah right, thank you both!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: daj on March 28, 2017, 07:57:55 AM

It's the 2300 AD background track from Chrono Trigger! :) I don't intend to arrange this, but this is one of the tracks that's worthy of some thought. ^^

If you were to arrange this, what would be a nice time signature? It's not meant to be beated, but there's this fun interaction in the track - percussion parts beat every two eighths, and every long chord lasts nine eighths. Yep, that's right: nine eighths. The phrases are four chords long, with the first and third chord progressing in step to the second and fourth chords respectively. :)

So it would seem right to write it in 9/4, but that suggests compound triple meter. 4+5/4 or 5+4/4 would be ignoring the equal division of the long chords. The best option I can think of is writing in 18/8 (which doesn't really suggest that equal division either, but eh) or writing in 4/4 and making the whole thing a mess of ties. :p

Thoughts? ^^ Would be glad to hear some of them, because this track is just so worth discussing <3



oh and since i'm here: great marsh from dppt.
Spoiler

i'm almost certain this is 2/2, but i have seen pretty much zero sheets on the site in 2/2. would anyone else write this in 2/2?
[close]
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Static on March 29, 2017, 12:16:02 AM
I'm getting a strong C minor vibe from this. The chords go all over the place though, so I'm not entirely certain.

As far as timesig goes, if you are notating the percussion in the sheet itself, I would probably go with 9/8 and label the subdivisions as being different. Not all 9/8 songs are necessarily in triple (like this (http://www.mindformusic.com/public/pdf/brubeck_dave/Dave%20Brubeck%20-%20Blue%20Rondo%20A%20La%20Turk.pdf) for example), so as long as you label what subdivisions you're using I think it would work nicely.

If you aren't notating the percussion parts on the sheet, then I would either do the 9/8 stuff above or, if you want, put it in 4/4 but make sure the tempo is the same.

Hope this helps a little!

Edit: About that Great Marsh one, I would personally put it in 4/4 with quarter note = around 110, but cut time would also work I think.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: daj on March 29, 2017, 12:52:40 AM
Hey, thanks for the thoughts, Static! ^^ Yep, it's C natural minor with the D-flat chord added in for flavour (there's a theory term for this, neapolitan 6th i think).

I quite dig the idea of notating it in 9/8, and in a similar style to the Brubeck sheet you shared. So thanks for the sharing, yeah :)

Oh, and for great Marsh, the more I think about your idea, the more stupid cut time sounds. I'll be scoring it in 4/4, hehe~
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: LeviR.star on March 29, 2017, 06:25:19 PM

I need to know what type of swing this song is before I alter the song completely.

This is what I have right now:

[MUSX] (https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7e6yyv08o1tpxm/Kirby%20Planet%20Robobot%20-%20Gorgeous-Go-Round.musx?dl=1)

Should it still be dotted eighths tied w/ sixteenths, or should it be eighth notes swung with this notation?

(http://www.guitarnoise.com/images/articles/3746/4.gif)

I have a lot of alteration to perform on this song, but this will come first.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on March 29, 2017, 10:39:21 PM
Swing eights, as the picture above says.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Static on April 13, 2017, 05:03:44 AM
This song is just so weird:


It's mainly the time signature for the first 14 seconds; I have no idea what to put down.

However, I do have the other time signatures down I think, in case anyone wants to check them (starting at 0:14):
12 measures 7/8 (3+2+2)
1 measure 5/8 (3+2)
1 measure 8/8 (2+3+3)
5 measures 14/8 (2+3+3+3+3)
1 measure 5/8 (2+3)
1 measure 8/8 (2+3+3)
5 measures 14/8 (2+3+3+3+3)
1 measure 5/8 (2+3)

Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on April 13, 2017, 05:23:46 AM
This song is just so weird:


It's mainly the time signature for the first 14 seconds; I have no idea what to put down.

However, I do have the other time signatures down I think, in case anyone wants to check them (starting at 0:14):
12 measures 7/8 (3+2+2)
1 measure 5/8 (3+2)
1 measure 8/8 (2+3+3)
5 measures 14/8 (2+3+3+3+3)
1 measure 5/8 (2+3)
1 measure 8/8 (2+3+3)
5 measures 14/8 (2+3+3+3+3)
1 measure 5/8 (2+3)

Thanks!
Oddly, I find the first several seconds to be the most regularly rhythmic of the piece--from 0:00-0:12, I'm getting this:
Quarter-note pickup
2 measures of 4/4
1 measure of 3/4
4 measures of 4/4

...Though the start of the 3/4 bar isn't emphasized, the starts of the other bars are.

I lose track at approx. 0:13 (around the ascending A#-B-C# figure in the melody)--notably, I'm having a hard time finding your 7/8 bar right now.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Static on April 13, 2017, 10:52:48 PM
Hey, thanks! After listening to the song again, those times make a lot more sense to me now. I think you were pretty spot-on.
I'll try this out and keep experimenting with other possibilities. Thanks for responding!

Also, in case you were wondering, the 7/8 section starts when the bassline kicks in, although it can be a little tough to tell.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on July 17, 2017, 05:46:01 PM
What Key is this? Also, could someone assist me with chords here?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: WaluigiTime64 on July 17, 2017, 09:13:22 PM
D, then somewhere around the middle it switches to F, and somewhat near the end it switches to F#/Gb (it should be really obvious where that one happens).

I don't have time to help with the chords unfortunately, and they seem very tricky.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on July 20, 2017, 01:30:05 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on September 21, 2017, 01:25:23 PM
Sned hlep
need key sig and time sig for this

 and the same for this

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: AmpharosAndy on September 21, 2017, 02:25:23 PM
both 4/4 and start in D major. First one stays there but the second uses some eastern-sounding scales and idk what key you use for that sort of thing.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on September 21, 2017, 04:21:20 PM
both 4/4 and start in D major. First one stays there but the second uses some eastern-sounding scales and idk what key you use for that sort of thing.
for like the whole song or does it start at a certain point? If so, when?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on September 21, 2017, 11:16:47 PM
Sned hlep
need key sig and time sig for this

 and the same for this

I agree that "Water Town" is in D major. You can use 4/4 for the meter, but I feel a somewhat strong pull toward 2/2 meter.
"Water Town" borrows a significant number of chords from D minor (e.g. C major, B flat major--the borrowing is prominent from 0:13-0:17), but the important cadences are still in D major, and long stretches of the theme are in D major.

"Day Travel 2", though...it's in 4/4 time, but this theme is in a hinterland between D major and D minor to me, and you can make strong cases for either. It doesn't help that there are prominent G#'s at 0:05-0:08 (implying D Lydian or "D over-sharp major"), then a flip to the D Phrygian Dominant scale from 0:12-0:16 (I normally use a D minor or even G minor key signature in this case, as the Phrygian Dominant is to harmonic minor as Mixolydian is to major/Ionian).
Sections like 0:25-0:33 and 0:51-0:59 change between so many keys in so short a time that I wouldn't change key signatures at those points.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on September 22, 2017, 01:44:14 PM
What have i signed up for.....
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Tobbeh99 on October 01, 2017, 11:33:18 PM
I think the first one works well in 4/4 or 2/4 or 2/2. And probably is in D-major.

And the second one I quite sure it should be in D-major. Makes most sense with all the sharp tones.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on October 14, 2017, 03:31:32 PM
What about this one...i can already tell this may be really difficult to arrange let alone the key dig and time sig

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dekkadeci on October 14, 2017, 08:36:35 PM
Sounds like E flat major, 4/4, 8th-note swing, and 12-bar blues to me at first. It has a 4-bar intro (it has drum beats at first).

It follows the 12-bar blues less precisely later in the piece. It eventually stops using the 12-bar blues for some time.

The piece doesn't seem to switch keys, although it does use secondary dominants and end with a polluted tonic (something like Ebadd9, so an E flat chord with F on top).

EDIT: Had to correct my tempo/rhythm analysis.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on October 14, 2017, 09:07:08 PM
Ebadd9ndustries
ftfy
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on October 15, 2017, 08:57:01 AM
Lol. The part that concerns me is what the piece is going to sound like without the drums, unless I can find a way to incorporate them, thank you,btw!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on January 01, 2018, 11:09:24 PM
Wow, this place is dead. Anyways, I'm about halfway done with this replacement sheet and still have no idea what key this is in. It's like it switches every other measure or something.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on January 01, 2018, 11:11:50 PM
Wow, this place is dead. Anyways, I'm about halfway done with this replacement sheet and still have no idea what key this is in. It's like it switches every other measure or something.

What sheet?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on January 01, 2018, 11:37:03 PM
What sheet?
O_O I swear I'm going insane guys.

Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Dudeman on January 01, 2018, 11:42:59 PM
Eb minor. Which I suppose should be written as D# minor.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on January 01, 2018, 11:52:58 PM
Eb major, actually.
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on January 01, 2018, 11:56:59 PM
What, with all the F#'s and the like?
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: Olimar12345 on January 02, 2018, 12:03:28 AM
What, with all the F#'s and the like?

...Yes? they're chromatic neighboring tones to the G naturals (major thirds).
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on January 02, 2018, 12:23:33 AM
This, ladies and gentlemen, demonstrates my knowledge of music theory's inner workings. :P Thanks, Olimar (and Dudeman)!
Title: Re: What key/time signature is this song in?
Post by: BrainyLucario on January 11, 2018, 10:21:46 PM

Help plz. I think it's in 4/4 but I'm not too sure